Mistwell Melodies: The Tomgale Talisman

[Snikle]

Ever seen a game called The Window? That is extreme freeform, and a blast to run btw. Actually, I have always loved Axis and Allies, and Risk in particular, used to play it endlessly in high school, heck a few friends and I even made up a game based on Supremacy and played the heck out of it.

I am just saying that in a large combat situation like that, I would have to look at other options, simply because a small group of players could not really effect the outcome of such a battle UNLESS we are talking big magics or they were in some sort of leadership position over troops fighting in the battle.

[Alkaven]

Well, I did give plenty of examples of how a small group of heroes/elites can turn the tides of battle, no matter how big or small. It really mostly all boils down to the officer. Usually followers just run away once you kill their leader. Spells also go a long way as well. Fireball, mass suggestion, ect.,

Like a board game, your always going to have to wait until it's your turn. There is no way to eliminate that. Turn-based dialog existed because players aren't as fast with a keyboard, or when they talk, they aren't assertive and keep getting ignored. While it does slow things down, it's not fair that one person's enjoyment should suffer just because everyone else is impatient. As a DM, it's important to me that everyone is having fun, and if one or two people can't deal with being a bit more patient on their behalf, they don't deserve to play (assuming someone wanted turn-based dialog).

There's also those little tricks to speed up combat don't forget. I suggested clustered initiatives, and prerolling most of the stuff that becomes necessary. It helps speed things up without damaging the combat outcome statistics too much.

You can technically divide a huge war, but you would have to consider ratios in that situation. If the enemy army outweighs your army 3 to 1, then that means you have to be fighting encounters 3 times the size of your party (including followers, allies, and superiors).

[Snikle]

It really mostly all boils down to the officer. Usually followers just run away once you kill their leader.

I think you might be surprised how people react in combat situations.

[ijason]

I think you might be surprised how people react in combat situations.

More often than not, that is the case. No one really knows how anyone will react, including themselves. That's why we have 'training,' right?

[LordTomar]

Like a board game, your always going to have to wait until it's your turn. There is no way to eliminate that. Turn-based dialog existed because players aren't as fast with a keyboard, or when they talk, they aren't assertive and keep getting ignored. While it does slow things down, it's not fair that one person's enjoyment should suffer just because everyone else is impatient. As a DM, it's important to me that everyone is having fun, and if one or two people can't deal with being a bit more patient on their behalf, they don't deserve to play (assuming someone wanted turn-based dialog).

The problem with turn based dialog is that durring large battles, there is absolutly nothing to do between your turns. And with really large battles these turns could take up to a few minutes each.

Now if I had to wait a few minutes between my actions or being able to talk, I would start to look for things outside the game to do, and if it happened too much, I would most like just drop out of the game. I play PnP to play PnP and roleplay, I dont play it so I can sit there watching TV untill my turn.

[TruthRevisited]

It really mostly all boils down to the officer. Usually followers just run away once you kill their leader.

Uhm.. I would agree with this statement based on video games, but nothing more. I have seen with my own eyes what happens when an CO/Flight Leader falls, and its not scatter to the wind.

TR

[LordTomar]

It really mostly all boils down to the officer. Usually followers just run away once you kill their leader.

Thats why there is a chain of command in units. Generals and leaders arnt stupid, they know that when they send men to war, people will get killed and some of these men will be the unit leaders. So when an officer goes down more often then not one of the other men will take over the unit. They wont just throw their weapons to the ground and run away flailing their arms screaming for their mommies... though truth is that could also happen...

[Alkaven]

I'm still not understanding you completely Tomar. Either your there with others around in a circle playing a turn-based game, or your there with others around in a circle playing a turn-based game. Now I've heard of people doing things to pass the time until it's their turn, but if I invited all my friends around for a game of poker, I'm not going to just put my cards down and go play my Nintendo DS while waiting for everyone to place their bets.

I've had six players in my entire experience of DMing end up leaving and becoming very disappointed simply because they didn't 'do much'. I mean, it kind of sucks when there's one or two people in a game group who never get a chance to say or do anything. Imagine yourself if you were the slowest typist in the group and never got a single chance to do anything meaningful, because everyone else went too fast for you. Is that fair?

Granted, if nobody had that problem, I wouldn't invoke the rule anyway.

And I think you all missed the usually part of my comment about officers. The followers often don't have a chain of command (especially in that particular era). They're just a bunch of troops in armor with a weapon. The leader is usually an inspiring figurehead and the ultimate weapon. If your leader goes down, and your opponent's leader is still standing, nobody knows what the hell they're doing. Loyalists will stay, and those who value life will run.

[LordTomar]

I'm still not understanding you completely Tomar. Either your there with others around in a circle playing a turn-based game, or your there with others around in a circle playing a turn-based game. Now I've heard of people doing things to pass the time until it's their turn, but if I invited all my friends around for a game of poker, I'm not going to just put my cards down and go play my Nintendo DS while waiting for everyone to place their bets.

Now your little poker analogy just doesnt work. When your playing poker, the dealer is not going to say to the people that are not betting that they are not allowed to talk. Also a round of poker will only normaly only take a max of 1 minute. While with a large scale battle in PnP can take a number of minutes.

I've had six players in my entire experience of DMing end up leaving and becoming very disappointed simply because they didn't 'do much'. I mean, it kind of sucks when there's one or two people in a game group who never get a chance to say or do anything. Imagine yourself if you were the slowest typist in the group and never got a single chance to do anything meaningful, because everyone else went too fast for you. Is that fair?

Now it is true that it would suck for the slowest typer because he wont get his comments in as fast as other people. But in the games I am in now, the players and DM are able to fit together the comments we are making and seems to not have any problems figuring out what order they are supose to be in. Now sure if the guy is a really slow typer this might not work for him either because hes only typing 5 words per minute or something, but then again someone whos typing that slow should look into joining a group that uses voice chat for the game.

What adding the turns for dialog does is punish everyone in the group, not just help out the player who cant type as fast. And yes I use to be a slow typer when I first started playing games online, but I got faster, and I also never really had a problem getting my comments listened too.

[Alkaven]

For large scale battles where 20 NPCs all get turns, you would normally address it the way you do with a book. A story would likely say: "The enemy mercenaries all charged towards Sarseo" therefore you would roll the dice for those enemies. It's a simple 30 second step. I move them all, I roll all the dice, based on hits, I roll the damage. The only thing that slows this down is initiatives, because when you've got four players and ten followers, and thirty enemies, that's like one big tangled knot of combat that really slows things down. But this is where I mentioned cluster initiative comes handy.

While I admit I'm a speedy typer, and even my current game group are quick typists as well, that's one extra requirement your adding to your house rules that ends up taking the fun out of the game for a few: "Must have excellent typing speed for optimal participation."

I would be absolutely prepared to invoke that rule and punish the other players because of it if one person requested it because they weren't fast enough. While it's important to some people to simply just wait for that one bored and irritated player who can't seem to get a chance at anything to just end up leaving because all they wanna do is satisfy the majority of other players, I feel that patience overrules that. If three people get tired of waiting and decide to quit, screw em. They shouldn't be playing if they aren't going to try and play with the slow new guy. They completely accepted that all they want to do is play for themselves selfishly.

Alternatively, the turn-based dialog is easily flexible. If one slow person can't get a say, just make it 2-turn cycles. Him, then the group. Speeds things up.