Importing and converting SWADE Robotech book into FGU

[YggBjorn]

I am in the process of importing Robotech A Macross Saga Role Playing Game by Jason Lang, Jonathan M. Thompson, and Alan Weissman-Reed into FGU. It was written for SWADE so it is easy enough to import. However I have made the decision to scale the game to what I am calling Mecha Scale (MS). In MS 1"=6yds. Easy enough to divide the weapon ranges by 3 to get the proper ranges. Scaling the Pace has led me to realize that the Pace listed in the book for the mecha doesn't quite meet my expectations. The mecha move rather slowly compared to the listed top running speed, or perhaps my understanding of the mechanics and my math to derive the numbers are wrong.

According to the SWADE core book:

"Pace is how fast your character moves in tactical situations like combat. Standard Pace is 6, which means six tabletop inches per game round. Each inch is two yards in the real world. Movement is explained in detail on page 92."

"Running: A hero can “run” as a free action once per turn, increasing her Pace for the round by her Running die (a d6 by default) at the cost of a −2 penalty to all other actions that turn. Running dice never Ace. (The Running die is random to account for nuances of terrain not depicted on the tabletop and for the “risk to reward” decision players must make.) Out of combat situations, a character can move twice the sum of her full Pace + maximum running die for a number of minutes equal to half her Vigor die type. Thus a Fleet-Footed character with Vigor d6 can sprint at a Pace of 32 for three minutes."

If we remove the Fleet-Footed edge and just use the base numbers of a Pace 6 with a running d6 then (6*2)+(6*2)=24.

So standard pace for a human is 6. That means a human can move 6 1"=2yds squares in one turn, or 36 feet. If we divide 36 feet by 6, we can see how many feet they move in one second. So 6 feet per second or 4mph. If we assume they get a full result on their run die then 12 feet per second running or 8mph. 24 feet per second sprinting or 16mph. Seems reasonable.

If we take the stats from the Robotech book for a veritech fighter in battleoid form, it has a pace of 16 with a d12 run die. 16 squares in six seconds times 6 feet per square is 96. Divide that by 6 and we are back to 16. So 16 feet per second or 10mph. Full run die is 12 so 16+12=28. Since we are still moving those squares in 6 seconds we can just ignore the multiply by 6 then divide by 6 to get the same number to represent feet per second. 28 feet per second is 19mph. A full sprint would be (16*2)+(12*2)=56. 56 feet per second is 38mph. The listed top running speed is 100mph. To get a 100mph sprint we would need a Pace of 60 and a run die of 12. (60*2)+(12*2)=144. Either that or the run die would need to be d12+24 with a Pace of 36. It gets messy when you have a size 8 Huge creature shoved into a Size 0 world with the mechanics that work for Size 0 creatures.

Now if we move into Mecha Scale (MS) where 1"=6yds the numbers work better for Huge sized mecha and monsters. A Pace of 12 (MS) with a d12 run die gives us the numbers that equal 100mph in a full sprint. Let's work through the numbers. Pace of 12 means the mecha can move 12 1"=6yds squares in 6 seconds. 6 yards = 18 feet. 12*18=216 216/6=36, so 36 feet per second or 24mph. Running with a full run die would be 24 squares. 24*18=432 432/6=72, 72 feet per second is 49mph. Sprinting would be (12*2)+(12*2)=48 48*18=864 864/6=144 144 feet per second is 98 miles per hour.

Do I have any errors in my math? What are your thoughts on Mecha Scale (MS). I got the idea from Dawn of the Daikaiju where they have Kaiju Scale (KS) which is 1"=20yds.


EDIT: I have created a spreadsheet to easily see how fast an actor is moving in ft/s, m/s, mph, and kph, based off of their Pace while walking, running with maximum result on their running die, and sprinting. You can edit the numbers in the orange box, it will throw a warning but you can ignore it. It's the only way I can share blind and keep the rest of the sheet locked. It has Standard Scale, Mecha Scale, and Kaiju Scale. I can add more Scales if anyone is interested. You can also download a copy and edit it for yourself.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[YggBjorn]

I started this same thread over in the PEG Inc forums and it was brought to my attention that the Rifts: Tomorrow Legions Players Guide has Power Armor using a doubled run die, such as 2d8. If I chance the veritech's pace to 8 with a 2d8 run die, then we get 8*18=144 144/6=24 24 ft/s is 16 mph. 8+16=24 24*18=432 432/6=72. 72ft/s is 49mph. (8*2)+(16*2)=48 48*18=864 864/6=144. 144ft/s is 98mph. I think that is a good compromise to have a walking speed of 16 mph and a sprinting speed of 98 mph. If we upscale a standard size human to Size 8 and keep Pace 6, they would have a walking speed of 14 mph.

[Corsair31]

Hello, I am also doing a Robotech FGU conversion using the same Savage Robotech document. I am also drawing inspiration from the Palladium Robotech books and the SWD Science Fiction Companion. I'm pretty much done with converting/importing the majority of the Macross Saga stuff (skills, edges, mecha) and will try to import vehicles and capital ships at some point. The issue of translating mph/kph to an accurate mecha pace is one of many technical issues I am grappling with, but I haven't really focused too much effort on these issues yet. Accurate token size for Zentraedi mecha on a map (a Female Power Armor is 4x larger than a VT token) is another issue I hope to resolve too as well as a realistic combat sequence that will likely not use Chase rules.

I am taking a bit of a break from this conversion stuff by gathering/creating battle maps for a custom Macross campaign. I managed to create a 2000m rendition of a Zent destroyer, but Arkenforge was unable to export it as a single image; I found a workaround by breaking it up into nine images, reduced the resolution, and imported them into FGU as a tile set. I have also started doing mecha conversions for the Southern Cross, Invid Invasion, and Sentinels. I would be interested to see how far you've gone in your conversion process; if you are interested in what I've done so far, you can check out my #savage-robotech-fgu-conversion channel on Discord at Corsair31#8292.

[YggBjorn]

Hello, I am also doing a Robotech FGU conversion using the same Savage Robotech document. I am also drawing inspiration from the Palladium Robotech books and the SWD Science Fiction Companion. I'm pretty much done with converting/importing the majority of the Macross Saga stuff (skills, edges, mecha) and will try to import vehicles and capital ships at some point.

Did you import the mecha into the FGU extension 'Setting: Savage Rifts'? If so did you import it as a vehicle or power armor? I am thinking about importing mecha as a vehicle. It would be great if I could have the Pace + Run die show up as an editable, clickable, and drag-n-droppable field however I can just plop the info into the notes tab and let the player roll the suitable desktop dice.

[QUOTE]The issue of translating mph/kph to an accurate mecha pace is one of many technical issues I am grappling with, but I haven't really focused too much effort on these issues yet. Accurate token size for Zentraedi mecha on a map (a Female Power Armor is 4x larger than a VT token) is another issue I hope to resolve too as well as a realistic combat sequence that will likely not use Chase rules. [\QUOTE]

I am guessing you are placing the characters/vehicles/power armor into the Combat Tracker and then pulling from the Combat Tracker onto the map. For NPCs it automates the size nicely, not so much for PCs but it is an easy fix. When you have the PC in the Combat Tracker, click on the little SHIELD icon for their entry. That opens the info from the record for Pace, Parry, Toughness, etc. We want the field for Space. The example below is from Dawn of the Daikaiju where a Size 16 Daikaiju should take up a 2x2 square or circle on the map. I am using a hex tile grid, as suggested by Doswelk, to better simulate tabletop play for SWADE. The NPC Commandant Yyaalg's Biomech is the right size but our PC Wukong is too small. We can see the Space field for Wukong has a 1 instead of a 2.



It's an easy fix though. Remove Wukong's token from the map. Click on the 'Space' field on Wukong's Combat Tracker entry and change it to a 2. Now replace Wukong's token on the map and the token is the right size.



Unfortunately you must edit the 'Space' field for the PCs everytime you add them to the Combat Tracker. If you don't remove them from the tracker then it will retain the info between sessions, so you might only have to do it a couple of times during a campaign.

I am taking a bit of a break from this conversion stuff by gathering/creating battle maps for a custom Macross campaign. I managed to create a 2000m rendition of a Zent destroyer, but Arkenforge was unable to export it as a single image; I found a workaround by breaking it up into nine images, reduced the resolution, and imported them into FGU as a tile set. I have also started doing mecha conversions for the Southern Cross, Invid Invasion, and Sentinels. I would be interested to see how far you've gone in your conversion process; if you are interested in what I've done so far, you can check out my #savage-robotech-fgu-conversion channel on Discord at Corsair31#8292.

It sounds like you are a lot farther than I am. I am just barely starting to import the Skills from Robotech into an M3L document.

I suggest converting the Mecha and full sized Zentradi to use the 1"=6yds Mecha Scale (MS) I am using. How often do you anticipate having a normal sized human battling a full sized Zentradi on a combat map? You can still have that but the pace for the human would need to be adjusted from 6 to 2. The distance is the same, but the human has less map-space to move through tactically.

For Cylone vs Invid we can probably keep the standard 1"=2yds scale as most of the Invid mecha fits in the Large size range with a couple in the Huge size range. That would put a Cyclone Battle Armor in a 1x1 square, the Invid scouts and trooper in a 2x2 square, and the Invid Command Unit and Royal Command Battloid in 3x3 squares.

[Corsair31]

Did you import the mecha into the FGU extension 'Setting: Savage Rifts'? If so did you import it as a vehicle or power armor? I am thinking about importing mecha as a vehicle. It would be great if I could have the Pace + Run die show up as an editable, clickable, and drag-n-droppable field however I can just plop the info into the notes tab and let the player roll the suitable desktop dice

.

I did not use the Savage Rifts Setting Extension for this project and imported mecha as vehicles. I have not added Armored VT or Super VT entries yet and was planning to just add them as separate vehicles; I will probably consider importing Cyclones as power armor with the Savage Rifts setting extension.

VT VF-1x Statblocks.PNG

Mecha armaments were entered as separate weapon entries with missiles having both a weapon entry and a vehicle entry. Having missile/s as a separate vehicle entry is intended to generate the missile swarm effect on a map that the show did so well. Resolving missile movement on a map is another issue to contend with, especially with some missiles having ridiculous speeds (Mach 3+). Aerial and space battles are likely to be over long distances, which obviously requires the use use of Space Δ values for mecha and missile movement. So long-range missiles (LRM's) usually travel faster than 1 Δ and will take some time to reach their target, while medium (MRM's) and short range missiles (SRM's) will usually get to their target the same round or shortly after.

I will definitely try the space and combat tracker tweaks you suggested along with using Mecha Scale.

I initially was going to try and apply the new setting skills (Gunnery for example when using mecha weapons) and skill specializations, but found it cumbersome having to manually adjust every vehicle to use that new skill instead of Shooting. I suppose an extension could resolve that, but I am a total newb in that department. So I am keeping things simple for now.

In addition to custom weapons (Doom-like BFG, portable Expanse-style rail guns, etc), I came up with an edge called Physical Prowess (modeled after Palladium Books' P.P. attribute) that grants a character an extra reaction if they're in a mecha or out of it. In the same vein, as a result of the mind-link between man and machine due to Robotechnology, I am allowing players to have an additional reaction for each Agility die above a d6. This only applies inside mecha and can only be used for Reaction Fire (shooting at missile), Dodging, or Rolling with Punch, Fall, or Impact actions. This has not been playtested yet, but I think it helps with player survivability in the face of overwhelming odds.

[Corsair31]

So I threw up a VF-1A (Size 8, Space 0) vs a Gnerl Fighter Pod (Size 12, Space 0) onto the CT then a hex grid map (50x50) with a distance multiplier of 10 miles per hex. The Space values on the CT change to 3 and 4 for the VT and Gnerl respectively, but their size on the map is too big considering each hex is supposed to be 10 miles.

VT vs FtrPod-01.JPG

I guess the map itself could be an issue as it is 117kb JPEG at 1500x843 resolution.

When I adjust the VT Space to 1 and the Gnerl Space to 2 and add them back to the map, things looks a little better.

VT vs FtrPod-02.JPG

I did another test and reverted the Space values to the original 3 and 4 for VT and Gnerl, but this time on a custom map made in FGU (the Zentraedi destroyer is made up of nine 1000x1000 tiles). I'm using a square grid here at 250x250 with the distance multiplier set to 10m. The token sizes look more accurate with the VT taking up 3x3 squares and the Gnerl taking up 4x4.

VT vs FtrPod-03.JPG

[YggBjorn]

So I threw up a VF-1A (Size 8, Space 0) vs a Gnerl Fighter Pod (Size 12, Space 0) onto the CT then a hex grid map (50x50) with a distance multiplier of 10 miles per hex. The Space values on the CT change to 3 and 4 for the VT and Gnerl respectively, but their size on the map is too big considering each hex is supposed to be 10 miles.

Fantasy Grounds doesn't handle huge distances well because you can't have a token be smaller than a single hex/square on the map. (Although that appears to be changing in some of the rulesets with an upcoming release, but Savage Worlds wasn't mentioned.) The distance suffix doesn't change the unit of measurement, it just appends the suffix you entered onto the distance measured. By changing the Distance Multiplier from 1 to 10 you are telling FG that 1 hex is now 10 hexes. It doesn't know or care that 1"=2yds and it doesn't know or care that the new unit of measurement would read 1"=10hexes=20yds. It just knows 1hex=10hexes and deals with that info accordingly. Let's say we have a Veritech and a Battle Pod placed in the Combat Tracker and they are spaced 8 hexes apart from each other. The VT fires it's GU-11 Gun Pod at the Battle Pod. The weapon's range is defined as 75/150/300 within the Item record in FGU. So FGU looks at the distance of the shot and sees 8 hexes as the distance. It applies the Distance Multiplier to the distance so 8 becomes 80. FGU looks at the weapon ranges and sees 80 is more than 75 and less than 150 so it says that attack was medium range and it applies the proper modifier. It works well enough, but the Veritech token now is occupying the space of 20 yards within the game rules. 20 yards = 60 feet, not great but not terrible. Where the problems really arise is Pace. If a Veritech has a pace of 16 walking, the most it could ever move walking is 1 hex at a time according to the rules. Since 1hex=10hexes=20yards 16 would equal 1.6, tactically the game is starting to break. If we use a different number in the Distance Multiplier it gets even stranger.

I think a better method is to define the scale outside of FGU. So to use Mecha Scale (MS) as an example, 1"=6yds in MS. We leave the Distance Multiplier set as 1. We have to convert all of the weapon ranges on each Item sheet to reference the change in what each inch represents. Since we increased the scale from 1"=2yds to 1"=6yds for the rules, then we would need to edit the GU-11 Gun Pod from 75/150/300 to 25/50/100 so it is using the proper scale. The Veritech shoots at a Zentradi Battle Pod that is 30 hexes away. The game looks at the range number on the GU-11 Gun Pod and sees 30 is more than 25 and less than 50 so it is within Medium Range and applies the proper modifier to the roll. FGU doesn't know each hex/square represents 6 yards. It knows that the VT fired at an enemy that was 30 hexes away and compared that number to the range numbers input on the item sheet. Now we also have to adjust the Pace. In the Robotech book the VF-1 Valkyrie Veritech has a pace of 16. We need to convert that number to fit within the scale we defined as Mecha Scale. 16/3=5.33 we can round the number up or down. Let's round up to 6. We need to do the same for the run dice the best we can so since the run die is d12 we can take that down to a d4 easy enough. So the Pace/Run die changed from 16+d12 to 6+d4. Personally I think that makes the Pace a little slow for how the Veritechs are represented in the show. You can read the argument I made up above, if you haven't already. For our purposes in this post we are just doing a straight conversion by either multiplying or dividing by 3 as necessary. So you can see there is a give and a take with a scale conversion. However I think converting the scale outside of FGU is still a better way to do it than attempting to define it within FGU.

One of the reasons I haven't imported more info from the book into FGU is I want to decide on and apply the conversion before I enter all of the info and have to go back and edit it. The weapon ranges going from 75/150/300 to 25/50/100 make it a bit more manageable for medium range combat but long range is still clunky, but it usually is because of the suggested map size limitations in FGU anyway. If we are talking a battle within and flying over a forest then we can just grab an image from Google Earth, adjust the image ppi and size of the file to fit within the suggested numbers. It will probably be blurry but it should be fine. Space scapes are easier because we can crop some photos from NASA to a manageable size and use those.

When I adjust the VT Space to 1 and the Gnerl Space to 2 and add them back to the map, things looks a little better.

I did another test and reverted the Space values to the original 3 and 4 for VT and Gnerl, but this time on a custom map made in FGU (the Zentraedi destroyer is made up of nine 1000x1000 tiles). I'm using a square grid here at 250x250 with the distance multiplier set to 10m. The token sizes look more accurate with the VT taking up 3x3 squares and the Gnerl taking up 4x4.

The 'Space' field on an NPC record or used in the combat tracker only defines how much space the token will take on the map. If we use the default 1hex=1"=2yds within FGU then a Veritech should have a Space of 3. If we use the Mecha Scale then it should have a Space of 1. Mecha Scale can't properly represent a normal sized creature on the map and is best used for combat between Large to Huge sized combatants, but they will both occupy a 1" hex which means the Large sized combatant is technically represented as too large on the map. I don't think it will be an issue though as most vehicles are Huge size. The only two I can recall from the book that are Size 7 Large technically should be Size 8 Huge for their weight anyway. One of them actually says Size 7 (Huge) so there is definitely an error in there.

The Gnerl has errors I think. The stats for the size and weight put it as a Size 8 or Size 9 (Huge). I don't know why they gave it a Size 12 (Gargantuan). It is 33 tons dry so even if we stick an 18 ton Zentradi in there with a flight suit and helmet adding 275lbs, that is only 51 tons. I doubt you can fit 50 tons of missiles and fuel on it.

[YggBjorn]

I got tired of trying to remember the algorithm to convert Pace to ft/s and mph and wanted to be able to check differences on the fly, so I made a spreadsheet. It converts Pace using Standard Scale, Mecha Scale, and Kaiju Scale into ft/s, km/s, mph, and kph while walking, running with maximum result from running die, and sprinting. Anyone viewing the page can edit the numbers in the orange box, it will throw a warning but you can ignore it. Best I could do to lock the sheet down but allow edits to a given range while sharing blind. Anyone can comment anywhere on the sheet. Anyone can also download a copy for themselves and edit it however they like. If you do, I'd be interested to see your edits.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing


EDIT: What, no strikethrough? Anyway I figured out how to make the necessary fields have a drop down list. I gave them all 1-24 as options.

[YggBjorn]

Well it looks like this project will be further delayed. I had some time and wanted to try to get the Skills section converted to M3L and in the process have decided to go a different route than the authors. Between Skill Specializations and new Skills they have a list of 59 items. Yet before they list them they state:

Without making a dozen new skills (and breaking with the FFF aspect of Savage Worlds), we opted for a compromise: Certain skills “count as” specialized, just like in the Savage Worlds rulebook. Using the skill for any other way than the specialization gives a -2 penalty to the roll. Buying an additional specialization costs 1 skill point. Suggestions for specializations are listed below:

It's like they don't understand the statement they just made. I much prefer the system of Iconic Frameworks as used in Savage Rifts. I think I need to create a few for Robotech. I will refer to them as Occupational Frameworks, that is if the ruleset allows me to without creating an extension. I don't need to create a lot, but I will probably be creating some Edges to go with the 'Frames' so that is extra work. I also need to decide if I will bother keeping the Revised Skill list from the PDF intact, edited, or scrap it altogether.

I think the Robotech book had originally been intended to be released under SWD but then SWADE came out and they did a conversion. They've got a Skill Specialization under Driving for

Boat: Sailboats, motorboats, the small guys operated by one or two people. Large naval vessels require teams of people with many different skills.

SWADE has the Boating skill so that specialization is redundant.

[Corsair31]

I've downloaded the Pace Algorithm and will take a closer look at it this coming week.