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April 28th, 2023, 05:23 #11
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Agreed.
I agree about "apply as needed", but if I want to follow the rules as written I and the players need to keep track of the evolving state of awareness for PCs and NPCs and put those effects on the PC and target(s) when the new player wants to act then remove them after. Rather than establish them from current NPC's concealment/cover without regard to whether they are hidden, unnoticed, undetected or observer from earlier events.
Here is the rub. If NPC A does something to become hidden from PC X, I cannot add hidden to the the NPC A CT entry right then. If the next round is for PC Y then hidden on NPC A might not apply to them.
Instead I have to tell player X to remember that NPC A is now hidden from PC X. When we come back to PC X's turn (assuming nothing has changed) player X can put hidden onto NPC A in the CT for PC X's actions that turn.
I very much like the concept of the PF2 rules for awareness and effects, but this is where something like having an FGU effect record on the CT entry for PC X which says "NPC A is hidden from me" or "NPC A is flat-footed to me". Would allow Player X to use those records on PC X to keep track of any changes in PC X's awareness of NPC A or the side effects of that awareness. Then when we come back to PC X's turn everything would be ready to go without having to be transcribed into the CT entry of NPC A at the start of PC X's turn and then deleted at the end of PC X's turn.
Agreed. Having them help would be good for me, but a bit of a chore for them if I am correct about the mechanics above.
Yes given my current state of understanding. (What is MAP?)
Thanks very much for those ideas!
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April 28th, 2023, 05:29 #12
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April 28th, 2023, 07:48 #13
You'll find in practice that you'll just know for 95% of the NPCs/PCs and can apply the conditions when you need to. This is completely rules as written as you knowing is the tracking and if you apply the conditions/effects only when they're needed (i.e. when they impact something in the game) then you are playing rules as written.
I think you've taken a single sentence in the rulebook in isolation and not really considered how that would work in practice. The whole paragraph you mention is as follows:
Originally Posted by Core Rules page 466
Everything else, as mentioned, you'll pretty much just know and can apply effects/conditions when needed (when they actually impact activities in the game) by looking at the map and actor positions - for the few exceptions, apply the conditions and use effect targeting to track things.
You don't need to keep applying/removing effects for things you'll just know from positions on the combat map. This is another aspect of "Typically, the GM tracks..." - the GM informs a player before they make an attack/roll damage that a creature is flat-footed to them (e.g. they're a rogue, have used stealth for initiative and their target hasn't acted yet - although, I'd expect the player of the rogue to know this after they've played a bit), has lesser cover (because they're shooting through another creature), is concealed (because they're in some mist), is flanking their target, etc., etc.. You'll know the majority of this from just looking at the map.
Yes you can. This is known as effect targeting. See my response in post #4.
MAP = Multi Attack Penalty.Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!
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May 2nd, 2023, 23:42 #14
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Hiho,
I was just playing with expenditure per your suggestion. Merisiel the rogue is hiding from Valeros the fighter. I am using ShadeRaven's DnD Actions and Skills for Stealth: . His "(Skill) Stealth: Hide (Strike); Flat footed" effect says expend=On next roll. I apply that to Valeros. When Merisiel attacks the effect disappears from Valeros and when I roll damage there is no sneak attack damage unless I reapply flat-footed. Will there be an expenditure choice that would keep the flat-footed there until the sneak attack damage is done?
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May 2nd, 2023, 23:52 #15
The issue with keeping the flat-footed condition after the attack is that if the attack misses, then there's a flat-footed condition left on the target.
You have two options:
1) Apply the flat-footed condition without an Expire setting, and remove it when it's no longer relevant.
2) Apply a flat-footed condition with expire = roll and then re-apply it as needed (i.e. if the attack hits).
I'd recommend #1.
In the future I may look into an additional effect expire option to keep the effect for multiple actions - but that could get very complex as multiple actions aren't just limited to attack/damage.Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!
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May 3rd, 2023, 00:06 #16
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It is perplexing that when you set expenditure to next action that it is removed before the action is complete (I assume hit and damage is considered to be one action)
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May 3rd, 2023, 09:32 #17
In FG terminology "action" is a single double-click or button press that rolls dice in FG (attack, save, damage, heal). This is documented in the Wiki effects page: "If set to Action, the effect will be applied to the next relevant action (set of rolls)(i.e. area of effect attack rolls as a set)."
So, with this context in mind, expire on "action" is working correctly.Last edited by Trenloe; May 3rd, 2023 at 10:32.
Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!
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May 3rd, 2023, 10:45 #18
You can also set the Flat-footed condition to expire at the end of the PC's turn - then you'll just have to remove it if the PC does further activities in their turn that the flat-footed condition would impact; otherwise it will be removed when the PC advances the CT turn.
Here's some guidance from the rogue's Twin Feint feat in the upcoming Release 19. ETTS (Effect Target to Self), effects in feats and the "How to Use" sections are new in Release 19, the rest totally applies to the current version in live.
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May 8th, 2023, 03:04 #19
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That is very nice. I cannot wait for 19
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May 8th, 2023, 03:15 #20
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We played our first session last Friday with the Beginner Box adventure and 7 players (I had to boost the number of NPCs to match them). All the automation seemed to be working well.
Because it is hard to detarget individual opponents when you drag a HIDDEN effect target to multiple opponents, I ended up applying HIDDEN to the appropriate actor then enabling and disabling it for the DC 11 flat check depending on which observer was acting. That seemed to work pretty well for me and having the players help was very beneficial.
Thank you for the tips.
I saw none of the inter extension bugs that plagued 5E when many extensions were loaded.
I was using these extensions.
Extensions 2023-05-05.png
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