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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulimo View Post
    So would someone care to explain why this is so important? Because I am not seeing the need.
    It is not important.

    Also I see the "installing software is an issue" thing again...

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulimo View Post
    Even now, my players have never made that kind of request. Maybe it's because I don't play D&D, but even then, back in the 80s and 90s we dabbled with AD&D, and no one ever asked to 'work' on their characters outside of a session.

    So would someone care to explain why this is so important? Because I am not seeing the need.
    The use case for my players is to be able to generate characters, level up, choose spells and abilities. Specifically for relatively rules-heavy or option-heavy systems. For 5E, one of my two regular groups like using D&D Beyond in particular. They can read through all the various options for their characters and fiddle about with them, which is actually something I ought to put in as a request generally for the 5E ruleset on FGU - the ability to change your mind and undo level ups, selection of subclass, and so forth.

    I do this myself as a player too. I will play around with the character options when I level up, dither between taking a level of fighter or a level of rogue, etc.. I'll generate a clone version of the character and level them up a few times and see how they look at level 7 with different subclassing options, that sort of thing. Sure, there ARE other tools out there more suitable for doing this than FGU. But right now its not really even an option because of the need to be running the game server 24/7 to achieve it.

  3. #23
    Sulimo's Avatar
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    I play Rolemaster, it practically defined rules heavy. The joke back in the day was it should be called Rulemaster, or Chartmaster depending on who you talked to.


    From Rick Swan (former TSR game designer):

    "With its tidal wave of numbers, formulas, and tables, the Rolemaster game always struck me as the kind of fantasy RPG that calculus professors play on their day off."
    It's not as bad as that, however, it is pretty rules heavy.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulimo View Post
    You are basically talking about having FG be a web server, that would take things back to the FGC days to port forwarding, and all of the attendant issues with that. FG is not cloud based like Roll20 for instance. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that this sort of implementation will have to deal with these things to make it work. One of the biggest headaches for FGC was port forwarding. Since FG is not cloud based, it'll be more difficult to do this.

    Smiteworks has talked about a reader app for viewing the various modules in a mobile app, but it's being held up by licensing, not SmiteWorks (at least that is the last info I heard).

    Beyond a reader may be difficult in some cases. For instance, Apple forbids apps from modifying code without going through the App Store, this is what extensions do, so extensions would be right out for any Fantasy Grounds app for Apple devices. Google does as well, but their methodology for mobile apps is different, which has caused lots of issues in the past (nefarious developers submitting an app, then triggering a code change from outside the store), side-loading is also possible for Android as a work around (although Google appears to be cracking down on it).

    Then there are the app store policies themselves, especially for Apple, I've previously outlined some of the challenges here and here.




    I have to be honest, I've been GMing for 30+ years, and never once have my players requested to have access to their characters outside of the sessions. If the players did not have access to the books, it was pretty useless anyway.

    Before VTTs, my players usually asked me to hold on to their sheets so they would not lose them. Even now, my players have never made that kind of request. Maybe it's because I don't play D&D, but even then, back in the 80s and 90s we dabbled with AD&D, and no one ever asked to 'work' on their characters outside of a session.

    So would someone care to explain why this is so important? Because I am not seeing the need.
    Yeah I have two new players to DnD AND VTTs and one that lives in China so he can't even access the cloud so I had to setup the old style of port forwarding for them. The guy in China is new to FG VTT and wants to create his own custom Wild Surge table.

    I just think a Campaign Manager which reflects the modules that I own and allow the player to access on the server and access their character sheets would be extremely convenient. It covers that DnD Beyond niche that FG doesn't quite fill right now.

    I've even had one player share a google trove of most the pdfs that we use and setup Obsidian Portal for them. I just would think the next step for FG is if they can incorporate Mobile and campaign management with the cloud game servers.
    FGU Ultimate|OGL 1.0a forever | Open RPG Creative (ORC) license!
    I play and GM everything and anything!
    Come join me and make some memories of another life.
    DMing Curse of Strahd with 6 wonderful people.
    Playing 5e in Midgard with Sir Greystone
    Playing Rolemaster and Fallout 2d20 with GM Max
    Playing Against the Darkmaster with Kergan
    Solo Roleplaying to become a better GM and experiment with systems that aren't as popular.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by indavis View Post
    Yes, I am basically mentioning using html connectivity to allow certain functionality. This is different than port forwarding. Sure there would be headaches, but that goes with any programming, especially once you start adding features. I am watching a lot of videos for playthrus of games that I would like to gm or play, and a ton of them have some of the players just connecting to the game for things like die rolls, and from what I can gather things like simple map viewing, etc. While I get that it kind of goes against the grain of getting new users to the software, and I own an unlimited license just for that reason (to get new people interested), there are also times that I can see an advantage where people could just pop up a browser for limited functionality connecting to a currently running campaign. This is all merely conversation and suggestions as I well understand the complexity. Adding in "html server" code, dealing with the myriad of browser compatibility issues, etc. But just think how innovative it would be if a gm could do something like click a button and generate a url for a player to just pop into their browser and be able to join in the die rolling, or the game chat. I play with a small group of people and while another in our team is fully with me on using the software and has an unlimited license as well, getting some of the others to install new software is a hard sell at the moment. Possibly having this limited functionality would be enough to push them to eventually go for it. Plus, like I said, sometimes you have things installed on a machine you can't just drag around.
    I upvote this.
    FGU Ultimate|OGL 1.0a forever | Open RPG Creative (ORC) license!
    I play and GM everything and anything!
    Come join me and make some memories of another life.
    DMing Curse of Strahd with 6 wonderful people.
    Playing 5e in Midgard with Sir Greystone
    Playing Rolemaster and Fallout 2d20 with GM Max
    Playing Against the Darkmaster with Kergan
    Solo Roleplaying to become a better GM and experiment with systems that aren't as popular.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulimo View Post
    I play Rolemaster, it practically defined rules heavy. The joke back in the day was it should be called Rulemaster, or Chartmaster depending on who you talked to.


    From Rick Swan (former TSR game designer):



    It's not as bad as that, however, it is pretty rules heavy.
    Yeah I just started playing in a Rolemaster game. I love it. Thinking about making a random tap table extension, but I have to get more familiar with the rules first.
    FGU Ultimate|OGL 1.0a forever | Open RPG Creative (ORC) license!
    I play and GM everything and anything!
    Come join me and make some memories of another life.
    DMing Curse of Strahd with 6 wonderful people.
    Playing 5e in Midgard with Sir Greystone
    Playing Rolemaster and Fallout 2d20 with GM Max
    Playing Against the Darkmaster with Kergan
    Solo Roleplaying to become a better GM and experiment with systems that aren't as popular.

  7. #27
    JohnD's Avatar
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    I don't know why I'm bothering but... some of the same old supposed justifications are being raised again. FG is a full software program, not an app or a website and it exists in a niche segment of what is still itself a niche market.

    Not knowing how to install software. In 2023. And incapable of being walked through "click this URL, download and launch the installer, go with the default options." OK.

    Not wanting to install software I can see, but then I wonder whether the person really wants to game in the first place.

    This is right up there with the old "Double click? What's that?" and "Right click? What's that?" and "I couldn't install the software because I don't know where I put my computer."

    Although to be fair, there are people who lack basic computer usage skills, but I wonder what these people are doing looking to play games online in that case.

    To each their own opinion obviously, myself included.
    "I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."

    - John Diefenbaker

    RIP Canada, February 21, 2022

  8. #28
    Proper post below.
    Last edited by MentalChillness; February 6th, 2023 at 05:05. Reason: Being an idiot.
    FGU Ultimate|OGL 1.0a forever | Open RPG Creative (ORC) license!
    I play and GM everything and anything!
    Come join me and make some memories of another life.
    DMing Curse of Strahd with 6 wonderful people.
    Playing 5e in Midgard with Sir Greystone
    Playing Rolemaster and Fallout 2d20 with GM Max
    Playing Against the Darkmaster with Kergan
    Solo Roleplaying to become a better GM and experiment with systems that aren't as popular.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD View Post
    I don't know why I'm bothering but... some of the same old supposed justifications are being raised again. FG is a full software program, not an app or a website and it exists in a niche segment of what is still itself a niche market.

    Not knowing how to install software. In 2023. And incapable of being walked through "click this URL, download and launch the installer, go with the default options." OK.

    Not wanting to install software I can see, but then I wonder whether the person really wants to game in the first place.

    This is right up there with the old "Double click? What's that?" and "Right click? What's that?" and "I couldn't install the software because I don't know where I put my computer."

    Although to be fair, there are people who lack basic computer usage skills, but I wonder what these people are doing looking to play games online in that case.

    To each their own opinion obviously, myself included.
    Right, as you can attest. The FGU Academy has a monumental task of teaching people all the amazing features that FG can do. FG is my favorite because it has the best UI, isn't web-based so I can store data on my PC, has contracts and access to tons of different 3rd Party Creators and gaming systems, and allows for lots of customization and automation. I just want to see something simple that people can access from mobile/tablet within the campaign without the server running and some Obsidian Portal like wiki attached to FG itself so I don't have to manually edit everything from FG to OP. I know I'm asking a lot, for FG to basically compete with DnD Beyond and also offer Campaign manager features that can be accessed off the server. But they're just suggestions which I think would improve FG in this new mobile market.
    FGU Ultimate|OGL 1.0a forever | Open RPG Creative (ORC) license!
    I play and GM everything and anything!
    Come join me and make some memories of another life.
    DMing Curse of Strahd with 6 wonderful people.
    Playing 5e in Midgard with Sir Greystone
    Playing Rolemaster and Fallout 2d20 with GM Max
    Playing Against the Darkmaster with Kergan
    Solo Roleplaying to become a better GM and experiment with systems that aren't as popular.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulimo View Post

    It's not as bad as that, however, it is pretty rules heavy.
    Sounds like something a calculus professor would say

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