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  1. #21
    Agree to disagree is correct; but I take issue with saying something is broken because your interpretation of how a house rule should be implemented is different than the implementation provided (which is a different interpretation than yours).

    The automatic actions for 5E are tied to specific class feature and racial trait names. If they are the default features/traits, then the additions should be correct. If they are not the default features/traits, then they should probably be named differently anyway to avoid confusion.

    Regards,
    JPG

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Wizard View Post
    Agree to disagree is correct; but I take issue with saying something is broken because your interpretation of how a house rule should be implemented is different than the implementation provided (which is a different interpretation than yours).

    The automatic actions for 5E are tied to specific class feature and racial trait names. If they are the default features/traits, then the additions should be correct. If they are not the default features/traits, then they should probably be named differently anyway to avoid confusion.

    Regards,
    JPG
    Interpretation? I suppose if your interpretation is that FGU 5E ruleset is not a generic ruleset that is module agnostic - then...

    No, I really can't see it. We will have to disagree. FGU's entire selling point is how it allows rulesets to run data and that lots of variety can be done. Sticking in hardcoded interpretations with no way to turn them off cuts off all of that.

    I would like your interpretation of what you consider "default" because plenty of D&D things let alone other things like SW5e - have modules that overlap and reuse keywords differently. Classes, races, traits - are not the same. There is even a thing called homebrew.

    And this parsedata stuff? Breaks it. I can't agree to any other description. No way to turn it off - no way to tie parsing to a particular module... broken. We will have to disagree for sure.
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  3. #23
    For the first part, I was speaking to the per-turn randomized initiative, which is a difference in interpretations of a custom house rule. I'm not saying that the other option seems like something that some people such as yourself might want, but the current option is also a valid house rule option.

    For the second part, I was speaking to the powers added on feature/trait addition. The assumption is that features/traits are unique. If you are using different rules for features/traits (such as SW5E or another modification), then change the name to Feature (SW5E). The hard-coded power additions are something we want to improve on in the future and have some ideas, but the fastest way to help the largest crowd of users using the 5E core content was to hard-code to the feature/trait names. If you don't want those to trigger, you will need to use different names, such as suffixing.

    Regards,
    JPG

  4. #24
    While its hard to tell what you were replying to when all I have to go by is order of forum responses, I can simply clarify what I'm saying like this:

    Both these things break me in unexpected ways. The word break or broken is accurate in my case as to what happens. I notify people of things I didn't know but wish I had to save me a TON of work trying to figure it out.

    Case 1:
    I could not figure out how rounds were being applied. BCEG and other extensions that trigger on rounds were broken and randomly triggering at weird times. Now - like most users - I had no knowledge of init in effects. Never needed to deal with it - nor do I suspect the vast bulk of users. It just works as it works. Most of us see odd behavior and go "meh" if I can't duplicate it will just live with it. And so it was with various things occasionally not working as they should. One day I told someone that I could never understand how rounds triggered in FGU. There first response was "do you use the random init option?". Yes, yes I do, I said. They then told me that it would scramble the effect init order from what was expected and to prevent this you needed to use this extension. I notified people here that I had found something I never knew that was breaking me. Now, its not. Behavior is as expected.

    I don't believe for a second anyone who did not dig deep into this understands what this discussion is even about. So let me clarify, for those reading this and not knowing what we are talking about.

    Duration is something effects have - and they are governed by a value they keep called init. The docs describe it as follows:

    Duration: When the main duration field is set to Start/End Turn values, an additional field will be shown to track the initiative number when the duration should start/end.

    Now in a non random init option world you will have an effect be able to determine where in the count (round sequence) it needs to do its stuff - like expire - like extensions triggering. How it determines when the effects turn starts and ends.

    This has meaning. When you use the random init option this meaning is lost. Extensions that depend on it to retain its meaning are broken.

    Enter this strange back and forth argument. You guys fulfilled a request to do random inits. I'm quite sure nobody thought of the consequences to the effect init values as its pretty simple to preserve their sequence. Further, I don't think people "want this behavior" I think they have no clue what the behavior is, why its happening, but just go with the flow because its not breaking anything in their games. Like I was.

    Till I found something an extension was behaving wrong and actually looked into it. You seem to be hung up on the word broken - well as we have gone over several times - we are not going to agree. This is broken to me. And now its not. I notified people of the danger here and do not regret my usage of adjectives to describe it.

    Case 2:

    I was busy prepping for my SW5E game which in this case involved updating all the module data (and the live data that used it) to the latest pdf document for that stuff. Very time consuming - and tedious - and I was almost done. When populating "combat superiority" feature in abilities suddenly populated about 10+ things into my PC actions tab. I thought where the heck did equip effects (extension) find that name match? The things put out there I did not recognize at all as part of my module data set. Now began an hour long dig into db.xml's of modules/campaign all showing nothing. This stuff came out of nowhere. I finally looked in the 5E ruleset code and... there it was. A very large list of keywords (no spacing - took a while to figure that out) that had nothing to do with my module definitions. I found the function that did it - no option to turn this stuff off - and shot the function... BANG. Overridden to never run with SW5E. But suddenly a LOT of other data anomalies I've noticed over the last year came into crystal clarity. Those supplemental modules that had unique action definitions go missing or mysteriously change after dropping into the PC abilities tab? MYSTERY SOLVED. My data was being broken by some mass hardcoded text substitution that could care less if I had data that shared the same keywords. And here's a common knowledge piece of information. WOTC and all the people who do supplemental modules and - well everywhere - they reuse different words/phrases that have completely different behaviors. Those actions/behaviors in my worlds get auto matched against custom effects and/or spell/powers to define the action action in the PC(actions tab)/NPC(CT actions). So I'm quite familiar with having to rename things to keep them unique when it comes to conflicting names in modules. And the users of that stuff also know it as its well documented - this is how it works - these are the options to turn it off. The reason I complain about arbitrarily replacing data behaviors with hardcoded settings, with no way to turn them off, with no notification that it is happening (except research which most users are not going to know how to do), is because having it break (yes that word again) out of the blue with no understanding how as it worked the last time I was in there.

    This is because that parsedata is growing every release, taking more and more keywords that were not previously conflicted or as in the case of combat superiority baffle me as to why anyone would want their players to have a bunch of options that they could not use legitimately dumped into their actions tab (we can skip that they don't match the desired behaviors or don't exist at all in the campaign as things doable). Players will click what they have to click. Now its possible you have some clear statement somewhere that THESE KEYWORDS in 5E will be auto populated into your players PCs - but I've not seen it. Except by digging for it myself to explain the inexplicable.

    Do I mind they do this to help the most people they can? Absolutely not. Do I mind they do it with no way to turn it off or marry it to specific modules? Absolutely.

    But again - the purpose of this thread is the let people know of things I've run into and explain how THEY might suffer the same fate - but maybe not spend quite so much time figuring it out.

    That's as fully as I can explain my position and the reason for posting this stuff here. I get you don't agree with it. But we will just have to disagree.

    As we've both agreed to do.. several.. times now
    Last edited by SilentRuin; January 17th, 2023 at 17:51.
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  5. #25
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    Just to make sure, I don't disagree with you posting this stuff and in this thread. I think it's useful and educational, to you, me and others. The reason I started going off-topic per se is because I saw a chance to clarify or educate on something that seemed like it wasn't clear. i.e. effects initiative. Hopefully I clarified default behavior in Post #17. As I said, default effect init behavior is what I expected and desire to happen, but can also see how others would expect different behavior (after all, most things that cause effects in the rule book are written to say something like "until the start of your next turn" which is not the way effect initiative works).

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  6. #26
    "Did you know... SW5E data set exists?" [FGU 5E Ruleset]

    What I do to create an SW5E campaign and PC characters using Fantasy Grounds Unity 5E Ruleset with extensions and SW5E extension and data modules.

    Last edited by SilentRuin; March 25th, 2023 at 22:25.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by SilentRuin View Post
    Did you know... raw FGU allows NPCs to be in marching order?



    I for sure did not! Pays to experiment!
    How make this? Works in 5E and RMC?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by YAKO SOMEDAKY View Post
    How make this? Works in 5E and RMC?
    Not sure what you mean as I only play 5E this is pure FGU behavior in the party sheet order tab. You'll have to look up in FGU for any details on it. Maybe the ? in upper right of window will take you to the explanation. But just dragging and dropping the NPC out of combat tracker into that page will do it for me.
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  9. #29
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    The order tab of the Party Sheet was upgraded a few months back. More details here: 5E Party Sheet - Fantasy Grounds Customer Portal - Confluence (atlassian.net)

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  10. #30
    I think I now understand my misreading!
    It's in the Marching Order and not in the Vigil!
    Thank you anyways! And Smiteworks is a tip generated by my erroneous reading!
    Allow NPCs (Allies) to be placed on vigil.
    That would come in handy for the Hirelings!

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