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  1. #21
    As Trenloe mentioned, it seems like a permissioning issue, especially since it's a single user on a single machine. It sounds like it might be some sort of issue with accessing permissions to a specific User folder by a different user account. In general, FG is designed to be run by a single user per computer, so any other configuration may not work.

    If you need to run multiple users against the same FG data folder, then you'll either need to grant permissions to the folder to be accessible by "any" user; or move the FG data folder to a location that is accessible by all users (which again would require setting a new folder to be accessible by "any" user).

    Or, I would recommend renaming the FG data folder; and just uninstall and reinstall with only the account you will be playing with.
    (i.e. /Users/yourusername/SmiteWorks/FantasyGrounds -> /Users/yourusername/SmiteWorks/FantasyGrounds_backup)

    Regards,
    JPG

  2. #22
    Alright....

    Creating a new admin user I am able to run the game from the applications folder, no problem. So this is definitely something to do with the user account on which the game was originally/initially (and many times subsequently) installed.

    As a point of order, I am not trying to do anything complex, crazy, or untoward with this setup. I have only ever run FG from this one user account on the computer, using this one FG account. This is a computer that logs into my games that I run on the OTHER Mac mini in the room (which is running FGU just fine). I only even tried to run it from another computer user account because I was trying to narrow down the scope of this issue.

    So, to be clear, all I am trying to do here, is get a base install of FG to run on this computer, on which it ran perfectly fine as soon as three weeks ago, until I encountered this issue. There is nothing else installed on this computer except Discord. I literally use it exclusively for projecting FGU onto a table surface, and connecting to a video chat in Discord. It doesn't run any other apps, do any other tasks, have any other software installed on it, or even have any other users log into it.

    I initially set it up with the intent of different GMs that use my setup having their own user profiles on the computer, since my kids are running their own games now too, but that never came to fruition and I am the only one using it.

    So this setup could not be more simple. Out of box computer with two non-pre-installed apps on it, that only ever runs those two apps.

    Three weeks ago, this app worked fine. I took an OS update and a game update one day, and since that day, this user has not been able to run FG.

    No weird account sharing, or profile switching, or multiple people using the same app install, or anything even remotely like that.

    This installation doesn't even HOST games. It doesn't have a FG license. It doesn't have any content on it that is not delivered by the host machine. It is literally a blank slate, almost a dumb terminal.

    Honestly, I'm not even sure why I need to defend such a stance if it WERE the case, but it isn't.

  3. #23
    So, I just did an OS repair/reinstall (non-destructive), to see if that would correct any potential issues with security or permissions settings on that user account, but the problem persists.

    At this point I may just wipe the hdd and reinstall macOS from scratch. Unless there any other thoughts on how to correct this?

  4. #24
    I don't think there's any question that you need to defend any position or stance.

    From our company side, there is only one Mac build that is used for all Mac users; that build is provided to all users; and it's generated using Unity game engine for multiple platforms. At this time, we don't have any other reports of Mac users seeing similar issues; and it only affects one computer on one account. Additionally, we don't have any expertise on Mac system-level issues in-house, let alone someone that could diagnose such an unusual scenario.

    While we are trying to guess at what might be the issue with your machine, this is something that is outside of the FG application causing it not to run, and not a general problem with the application. So, we don't really know why exactly the issue is occurring, or what might be the problem. The fact that it only happens with one account on one machine leads me to believe that it is still a permission/firewall/security program kind of issue; but that's a hypothesis based on the information you've provided.

    This sounds like something that someone specialized in Mac systems might be able to help with, given the unique nature of your setup.

    Regards,
    JPG

  5. #25
    Apologies for being defensive. It just seems like every time I ask a question about the program behaving strangely, either here or in discord, the main thing I get back from multiple directions is an admonishment about how I'm misusing the program. I know I have a unique use of the tool in my home, but it is by no means any different than a typical host machine accepting multiple connections for a game. Just, one of those machines (the one having this issue) is setup to project the game table onto my.... well... game table. That way we can still use minis for those still present, but include those who are remote...

    I fully understand the reality of a small, passionate team working on a passion project and not having the time and deep expertise in related systems needed to do deep troubleshooting. As I said, there is basically nothing of import on this machine so flatlining it and rebuilding it costs nothing but time. I was just hopeful that I could avoid that expense, of course.

    Before I do flatline the machine though, I have passed the crash log along to some coworkers who bend macOS and iOS to their wills to see if they can identify the issue. I don't have any games scheduled until after the US holiday this week, so I'll give them a chance to poke at it before I reformat the box.

    If they do come up with anything useful, I'll add it to this thread for posterity. If they don't, I'll flatline it and report back (hopefully) that doing so resolved the issue.

    Thank you all for your time.

  6. #26
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Lell View Post
    Apologies for being defensive. It just seems like every time I ask a question about the program behaving strangely, either here or in discord, the main thing I get back from multiple directions is an admonishment about how I'm misusing the program.
    Interesting you mention "here" (being the FG forums) in this statement - re-reading this thread (which as far as I can see is your only interaction on these forums) I can't see where anyone is admonishing you or suggesting you're misusing the program - everyone in this thread has been trying to help you. I have no experience with your interactions on Discord, so I can't comment on that. Comments in this thread suggesting that there's something up with access rights is purely based on the symptoms you describe, no one is suggesting that's due to you misusing the program, things like this happen occasionally to anyone.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  7. #27
    Everyone has been more than helpful. Looking back through the thread, you're absolutely right, of course. No actual suggestions of improper use.

    It was this line from Moon Wizard that got me feeling self-conscious, as it was a discussion about multiple users/accounts on a single machine that got people telling me I was misusing the software/license on Discord:
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Wizard View Post
    ... In general, FG is designed to be run by a single user per computer, so any other configuration may not work...
    Re-reading it, I know that was not the intent of the statement but I've been kind of reticent to share technical issues in either forum since I got jumped over there a long while back.

    So, my apologies to those present if I offended. T'was not my intention.

    I truly appreciate the assistance and I will update here whether I find a solution, or just end up reformatting the box.

    Thank you.

  8. #28
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Lell View Post
    So, my apologies to those present if I offended. T'was not my intention
    It's very easy to take the written word on forums like these the wrong way - you're usually dealing with people you don't know and so it's difficult to judge intent sometimes. I certainly wasn't offended; I was more concerned that you had a bad feeling in your mouth about the communication in this thread and had taken it the wrong way. All good here!
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  9. #29
    Okay,

    First off, I blew out the computer and set it up fresh again from scratch. Reinstalled discord and FG and everything seems to be fine now. So, the problem is resolved.

    As to root cause... I ran the crash log by some coworkers and friends and, while I didn't get a ton more information from them, I did get some that I'll post here just in case it can be of help to anyone who knows stuff. lol

    ----------
    It appears to be failing immediately on startup trying to load a metal texture file.
    It’s most likely that texture file is some object reference in the game, either in memory as part of the game binary or an actual file it had at some point.
    Hard to guess from just the non-symbolicated crash report.
    It fails to validate a metal texture descriptor and then it self destructs. (Throws exceptions and dies)

    You’re probably right and it’s some weird permissions thing.
    Maybe on a file that normally is in some external directory hidden somewhere upon install. So it’s getting left behind when you remove and reinstall it.
    It does sound that either a permission wound up wrong or a file that is in preferences for the app (which can persist across installs) got corrupted.
    ----------

    Thanks again for the support and attempts to fix from the group here. I greatly appreciate your time and efforts.

  10. #30
    Ah, that tickles a memory from a while back, where specific very large Mac display parameters would cause the Unity game engine to bail on initial startup due to the texture request being too large. I'm not sure what causes it, and it's something in the core game engine (i.e. Unity) vs. any code we wrote. It's driven by a parameter in the Unity game engine specific preference file. In the 2 cases we saw it happen, it was when using an external monitor. When we found it before, we had the full logs posted from the FG Updater, so it didn't spark that memory right away. Blowing away the Unity game engine preference file fixed it in those other scenarios.

    I'm not sure if that was the exact issue without seeing the Unity game engine logs.

    Just for future consideration, if it comes up again, the Unity game engine stores relevant data in these locations:
    * Logs - ~/Library/Logs/SmiteWorks/Fantasy Grounds/Player.log (Also, Player-prev.log)
    * Preferences - ~/Library/Preferences/com.SmiteWorks.FantasyGrounds.plist

    Sorry I didn't think of that earlier, but the single user symptom threw me off and I didn't think of it.

    Regards,
    JPG

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