DICE PACKS BUNDLE
Page 1 of 5 123 ... Last
  1. #1

    AD&D 1E, OSRIC and the extensions

    Last night, I posted this on the Discord but I'm posting it here to get some further visibility.

    First, the TL;DR - I created a new extension, based on Core 1E that makes 1E and OSRIC games run with many rules-as-written. I intend to continue developing it and I'm thinking that it should replace Core 1E entirely, but it could also just be a third extension for 1E games that I could hopefully find some way to let people know about because there's a lot of advantages to using this instead of Core 1E. Looking for feedback, please. And sorry for the really long, possibly rambling post

    As you may or may not know, there are currently 2 extensions that can be useful in running 1E and OSRIC games with the 2E ruleset. There's the Core 1E extension which adds some combat and saving throw matrices and other 1E-like properties, and there's the AD&D Options and House Rules extension that includes Core 1E and adds/improves on a number of further 1E/OSRIC-like properties and several options for changing things in the 2E ruleset.

    I decided to work on backporting some of the stuff from AD&D Options and House Rules (anything that was actual rules-as-written) into Core 1E.

    For the last few weeks, I've been working on that.

    It ended up opening a can of worms in my thought processes and, as might be obvious, it became apparent that we don't need two extensions that do the same basic thing.

    This led me to believe that the Core 1E mod should really focus on 1E or OSRIC as written (RAW), without additional options and that AD&D Options and House Rules should still include Core 1E but offer a number of options in running games with your own house rules (go figure).

    There was a lot of thought and decision-making and doubt about whether it was worth it and what-not. I do ultimately think that it is worth it because it gives people the ability to play a fairly faithful vanilla 1E or OSRIC game with the 2E ruleset plus this extension (and only having to set a couple OSRIC-specific options if using OSRIC), which is what I think Core 1E was really intended to do. I don't think that anyone has any intention of further work on Core 1E, except for maybe me, so I ended up thinking that the best use of it was making Core 1E RAW-like while leaving the AD&D House Rules and Options mod for those choices that aren't RAW. To that end, I intended up approaching it as more of a 1E ruleset in extension form.

    I could make this a separate extension called something like "AD&D 1E/OSRIC" and put it up in the Forge, but that would result in 3 extensions that at least all partially do the same things. If I do that, though, I would think that very few of the people who are using Core 1E would even know that an actively-developed extension with some really good 1E functionality even exists, as maybe evidenced by the fact that many people are still on Core 1E, when the other extension behaves exactly the same way through the setting of options but adds a lot of benefit to 1E players.

    On the other hand, I could make this the new Core 1E extension, but that might break people's games without them knowing that it's doing it.

    The other thought I had was making Core 1E throw up a window that lets anyone using it know that it's not being actively developed and that there are other options that they can use, depending on their use case, that have beneficial functionality that should continue to be updated.

    Such an approach would leave the Options and House Rules extension as the extension that provides additional options for running a 1E-styled or even 2E-styled game outside of RAW and would continue to include the Core 1E stuff as an option.

    All of these considerations led me to make some pretty big changes to the Core 1E extension, which have the potential to break the way somebody is running their game.

    In order to avoid breaking anything, I found the options that definitely aren't a part of 1E/OSRIC RAW (and that were set to defaults faithful to those rulesets) and modified their descriptions to indicate that they'd be going away.

    Then, not being sure that that would be the best approach, I came up with the idea of pushing an update to Core 1E (as stated above) that pops a window to let anyone using it know that it's being replaced, and to instead use the updated Core 1E extension (which I've considered renaming) or the Options and House Rules extension depending upon how they want to run their game. Doing that would allow me to right away remove the options that I think should be removed given that Core 1E would become RAW only, which I obviously think has several merits. Anyone desiring to run a non-RAW 1E/2E/OSRIC game or to maintain backward compatibility with their current game would then know about the option to migrate from the Core 1E extension to the AD&D Options and House Rules extension.

    Anyway, here are the changes I've made to Core 1E that I'm looking for input on. They need a final review, test and cleanup for general consumption but I wanted to try to get some feedback before proceeding...

    • reset initiative on round start (forced)
    • group all initiative (forced)
    • osric initiative swap (option)
    • assign init based on character who rolled (forced)
    • remove critical hits (would be forced, noted in option description)
    • d6 initiative die (forced)
    • remove pc vs npc init (forced)
    • encumbrance mandatory (would be forced, noted in option description)
    • remove armor dp (forced)
    • remove all initiative mods (forced)
    • remove all surprise mods (forced)
    • auto-reset initiative every round (forced)
    • enable delay only for OSRIC (option), sets delayed actor's init to 7
    • remove ability checks (would be forced, noted in option description)
    • remove kits (forced)
    • make currency weight mandatory (would be forced, noted in option description)
    • change label of auto npc initiative and switch to on/off only (forced)
    • remove critical hit/fumble tables (would be forced, noted in option description)
    • death's door thresholds and associated condition handling, according to AD&D 1E's (2) options or OSRIC
    • exactly 0 (AD&D)
    • 0 thru -3 (AD&D)
    • 0 thru -9 (OSRIC implied)
    • unconscious characters brought back to 1 or more hp receive a coma effect and a helpless effect
    • dead characters brought back to life receive a helpless effect


    What are your thoughts on this approach? I definitely don't want to tell anyone how to run their games but I do want to make it easier for people to figure out how to run their games, while maintaining fidelity to the original rules for those people who care about that or don't know the RAW and want to learn.

    In the following pictures, anything circled in red in would be the things that would be removed as options (and that I'd simply remove if I don't have to worry about breaking anyone's games), yellow highlight is the change, and blue circles are the new options.

    new-options-one.png
    new-options-two.png
    new-options-three.png

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Also, I forgot that I had thought about just making it a 1E/OSRIC ruleset instead of an extension. I don't know if there's merit or value to that for the 1E/OSRIC guys, but it would help eliminate confusion.

  3. #3
    I like the idea of a new rule set, however will that not cause issues as the campaign rule set can’t be changed, right? I say make only one extension with all the options as we have always (40 years) used ability checks so eliminating things is not very good, however have the defaults the actual rules.
    Playing since 1983, DM since 1985, FGC Full License, FGU Ultimate License.

    Currently GMing:
    * OSRIC AD&D (1st Edition) (Sunday)
    * D&D 5e (Monday)
    * OSRIC AD&D (1st Edition) (Tuesday)

    7+ years of gaming via FG

  4. #4
    Yeah, I think you'd have to edit the XML to change the ruleset of an existing campaign. I think that I've done that during testing and that it worked well, but it's not something you might expect everyone to be able to do.

    You, of course, make a fair point about ability checks. Though they're not mentioned anywhere in 1E core books or in OSRIC, I do know that people use them. Even if there's a 1E RAW extension, it probably wouldn't be the end of the world to include them with the option to turn them on or off, as you've said. The AD&D Options and House Rules extension does that right now and I kind of envisioned that anyone who would want something outside of RAW would use that. Of course, people would need to know that that extension actually exists and be willing to move to it.

    The whole point for me bringing all of this up is that it's kind of difficult for people to get a fairly authentic version of old-school AD&D running. There are a lot of options that need to be set if we want to get past just the modification of data while still using a bunch of stuff that never showed up until 2E. I'd like to make that easier for people, while preserving some of the original material and the original way of doing things.

    There were things that I felt needed to be forced in order to remove some of the options, but you're right that setting a default of what's in the actual rules and allowing changes is a good way to go. Again, though, that's already in the Options and House Rules extension.

    I've got a couple of questions if you don't mind.

    What about things like critical hits, initiative mods, individual initiative? The books are fairly clear that these don't exist outside of house rules, so I felt that forcing those options would be appropriate if we want a faithful representation of 1E/OSRIC.
    Also, which extension are you using right now? Core 1E or AD&D Options and House Rules?

    I do intend to bring the latest changes that I've made the last couple weeks into Options and House Rules, probably next week, and if you're using that extension nothing would change for you.

    I'd like to give people who are running 1E some new capabilities, even those people who don't know about the Options and House Rules and would never find them unless they did a forum or Forge search. Modifying Core 1E to include them would bring those options to people but it's been a real struggle on the best approach.

    The more I think about it, it does seem that making a 1E/OSRIC ruleset and maintaining the Options and House Rules mod would cover everything pretty nicely but I'd still want to let people know that those options exist, probably through a popup or description change or something in the existing Core 1E mod. I could also just leave it alone but I'd like to help and I hope that's what I'm doing here.

    Thanks very much for your feedback.

  5. #5
    We have always just rolled twice the damage dice on a crit, group imitative everyone goes at the same time. I currently use the 2e Rule Set with this to make it feel 1e: 2e - 1e Properties and AD&D options and House Rules
    Playing since 1983, DM since 1985, FGC Full License, FGU Ultimate License.

    Currently GMing:
    * OSRIC AD&D (1st Edition) (Sunday)
    * D&D 5e (Monday)
    * OSRIC AD&D (1st Edition) (Tuesday)

    7+ years of gaming via FG

  6. #6
    Cool, thanks!

    FYI, if you're using both 2e - 1e Properties and AD&D options and House Rules, you can stop using 2e - 1e Properties because AD&D options and House Rules includes it, as long as you have the option for it (bottom of the list) turned on. AD&D options and House Rules will continue to be maintained and will not change in its intent - I'll make sure to only add features to it and take nothing away, since I intend it to be the extension to use to run any version of AD&D (1E/2E/OSRIC) in any way that you want. Btw, suggestions on that are always welcomed.

  7. #7
    Yes there is a button, however at least 3 or 4 times during a session I have to turn off encumbrance and then turn it back on to have it recalculate correctly. Also as there are 4 options on the 2e - 1e properties and only 1 button on your extension how do I adjust what I do and do not want to use? Personally I would love it if the healing only healed the amount rolled instead of automatically bringing them conscious with 1 HP.
    Playing since 1983, DM since 1985, FGC Full License, FGU Ultimate License.

    Currently GMing:
    * OSRIC AD&D (1st Edition) (Sunday)
    * D&D 5e (Monday)
    * OSRIC AD&D (1st Edition) (Tuesday)

    7+ years of gaming via FG

  8. #8
    Thanks for your response.

    I haven't seen that issue with encumbrance. I'll try my best to reproduce it and fix it if there's an issue.

    AD&D Options and House Rules shouldn't take anything away. All the options that are present by default should still be present with that extension and you should have many more options you can set. See attached... And if you set "Use 1e Properties" to "On", you'll get everything from 2e - 1e properties.

    I have seen what you're talking about with hit points and I've corrected that and added the the raw options for Death's Door in what I've been working on. I just need to get it into AD&D Options and House Rules, which I'll do right away. It lets you set Death's Door for exactly 0 HP, 0 thru -3 HP, or 0 thru -9 HP. When a character's HP falls within the range of whatever option you've set, they become unconscious and lose 1hp per round until they're healed or aided. If they get hit during this time, they die. When characters get healed for less than the damaged amount, they become unconscious and stop losing HP. When healed for more than the damaged amount, they receive a "coma" effect and a "helpless" effect (to match the rules in 1E and OSRIC) that you can handle and remove however you like. I think it will work well for you.

    options-and-house-rules.jpg

  9. #9
    As you are tweaking the Death's Door options is it possible to have a Constitution score tag be there?

    I have always done the 0 to -10 but we also have toyed with the idea of 0 to negative Con score.

    Thanks,

    BOB
    We do not stop playing because we grow old.
    We grow old because we stop playing.

    www.islandkingdoms.org

  10. #10
    That's a great suggestion. Thanks. I'll add an option for "Dead At", settable to either -10 or -CON

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
STAR TREK 2d20

Log in

Log in