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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by fuleng
    Why.......?
    The material you've posted for a free download does not belong to you, it belongs to AEG. If you post this information for download without their permission it is a copyright violation of their material. While the information is not a complete version of their game, it contains material found *only* in a purchased product (in this case, basic clan information and Topaz adventure, though I haven't looked at the entire package just yet) and it thus protected. The legal rights to the material do not belong to you, and thus you cannot put it up for download online.

    Now, if you took this information copyright protected material out and just went with the graphics and character sheet, I think you would be fine. We've often talked about "Character Sheet Rulesets" in the forums, and although I personally would still like to see such items officially sanctioned by the publisher, I think that posting them would be OK.

    One of the things I personally have feared for early on is that FG would be used as a "copyright infringement tool" against publishers. Since I believe that publisher involvement in Fantasy Grounds is one of the keys to it's future, it is best to get a publisher's permission to put their material into FG and online.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza0Tyr
    Just a reminder on board etiquette as set out by Ged for these kinds of discussions.
    Since the posting contained a direct link to a download, I think it more than fair the issue be brought up here. I would rather the poster remove the link rather than have the entire thread yanked.

    The link you've so graciously provided does not address the reasons "why" his link is not appropriate. I've also messaged fuleng personally to explain the issue in addition to my other posting, and offered to help. There are several new people on the boards, and many of them may not understand the reasons for why posting this copyrighted material is not legal.

    In some cases it is best to address the issue rather than sidestepping it to another post. My posting is not to argue the wills and wherefors of FG and copyright infringement, but to say that the material in the link is clearly a violation and should probably be removed. Better that then consequences from AEG I think.
    Last edited by Thore_Ironrock; September 6th, 2007 at 14:48.

  3. #13
    Sorry Thore
    for my early very short question, but i was at work and not able to write a long explaining post, which i will therefore do now. From the beginning of my work on the ruleset i was aware of possible legal problems. For this reason i contacted AEG three times (because i sent the last email with read confirmation on, i am know that at least he last one was read). I explained everything to them and offered to send them the whole work so they can check it. Unfortunately i did not get any answer. Not even a simple yes or no. Thats one point. On the other hand i did not include one single line of text which can only be found in books or ebooks you have to buy. Everything can be found on the web if you frequent the official AEG L5R forum. Most of the stuff comes from this webpage:
    https://kuroiban.net/files/9/default.aspx
    which is listed in this thread on the L5R forum
    https://www.alderac.com/forum/viewto...p?f=60&t=49926
    The rest of the texts and images are from stuff from the official webpage, like free previews and character sheets. Whereever possible i tried to credit the original creator.
    So i dont not really see, how i violate any legal rights more than the people who posted the stuff in the first place. Ans those links are operate since december 2006. If AEG dont want those, it would have been deleted ages ago. And i dont make any money with this. Maybe Smitework will because some L5R fan will buy the product so he can play again with his friends from far away. But AEG would not sue a paper manufacturer, because the same guy downloaded those free stuff and printeted on paper? And all those people who can now play F5R again, will probably buy new AEG products, because now they can use it again.
    I hope i could convince you and everybody else that the link can stay and we can stop thinking about those legal nitpicks and go on playing

    FuLeng

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by fuleng
    Sorry Thore
    for my early very short question, but i was at work and not able to write a long explaining post, which i will therefore do now. From the beginning of my work on the ruleset i was aware of possible legal problems. For this reason i contacted AEG three times (because i sent the last email with read confirmation on, i am know that at least he last one was read). I explained everything to them and offered to send them the whole work so they can check it. Unfortunately i did not get any answer. Not even a simple yes or no. Thats one point. On the other hand i did not include one single line of text which can only be found in books or ebooks you have to buy. Everything can be found on the web if you frequent the official AEG L5R forum. Most of the stuff comes from this webpage:
    https://kuroiban.net/files/9/default.aspx
    which is listed in this thread on the L5R forum
    https://www.alderac.com/forum/viewto...p?f=60&t=49926
    The rest of the texts and images are from stuff from the official webpage, like free previews and character sheets. Whereever possible i tried to credit the original creator.
    So i dont not really see, how i violate any legal rights more than the people who posted the stuff in the first place. Ans those links are operate since december 2006. If AEG dont want those, it would have been deleted ages ago. And i dont make any money with this. Maybe Smitework will because some L5R fan will buy the product so he can play again with his friends from far away. But AEG would not sue a paper manufacturer, because the same guy downloaded those free stuff and printeted on paper? And all those people who can now play F5R again, will probably buy new AEG products, because now they can use it again.
    I hope i could convince you and everybody else that the link can stay and we can stop thinking about those legal nitpicks and go on playing

    FuLeng
    Just because you "tried" to contact them and they did not reply doesn't mean you can use the material, I'm sorry to say. The material in the links you provided is still copyrighted, and requires permission to use, plain and simple. It isn't a question of convincing me or anyone else, that is a fact. In this case no reply would be the same as no.

    Since these are not my forums I'll default to SW on how to handle your posting. My thoughts on this are clear I think -- if you violate a publisher's copyrights then they, and perhaps other publishers as well, will refuse to work with SmiteWorks and my company in the future to get their products legally online. This was a HUGE question from every publisher I spoke with at Gen Con, and if people want to see their fav gaming worlds in Fantasy Grounds then I would ask the community to think twice before posting said material. There is so much very cool stuff we as a community can do with FG, especially with WOTC's future plans now made public, but not if we skirt the law by ignoring copyrights.

    As I've said, I love the setting and would like nothing more than to see it in FG, but you cannot put material up for download when it doesn't belong to you -- and just because someone else is doing it does not make it right. Doing what you are doing is technically not illegal, but posting it for a free download is.

  5. #15
    Kevin
    can you point out for me with what exactly i broke any copyright law, when the stuff which is in the ruleset was given out for free from AEG to everybody? When i create a L5R fan homepage and a make the free character sheet or free adventure downloadable from that page (like people do at kuroiban.net), do i violate any copyright? Would the official publisher link to that page (like AEG does from its forum)? All what i did was transfer the content from the pdf format to the FG format (instead of maybe to the .doc format). if i would charge money for it, it would be law breaking. But it was a free download before and it is still a free download.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by fuleng
    Kevin
    can you point out for me with what exactly i broke any copyright law, when the stuff which is in the ruleset was given out for free from AEG to everybody? When i create a L5R fan homepage and a make the free character sheet or free adventure downloadable from that page (like people do at kuroiban.net), do i violate any copyright? Would the official publisher link to that page (like AEG does from its forum)? All what i did was transfer the content from the pdf format to the FG format (instead of maybe to the .doc format). if i would charge money for it, it would be law breaking. But it was a free download before and it is still a free download.
    In the first PDF I looked at the material was taken directly from the book. Legally, that means this material is applied to the copyright statement in the original product, which I'm sure says you need their permission. Again, just because someone else breaks the law doesn't mean it is OK. As I've also said, character sheets are one thing, but copying material directly from the printed product is another. Also, if the material is linked from AEG's site, then it is technically covered by whatever copyright statement is indicated there.

    I did notice he put in this lame copyright statement in the PDFs I looked at:

    This file is not intended to replace any of the books of the L5R game. Nor do I claim any ownership of the images or terms used here. I intend no infringement of copyrights. It is meant merely as a tool to help GMs introduce players to the game and help navigate in its supplements. If the people at AEG feel that this file has infringed in any way on their rights, please inform me and I will rectify the situation.

    The fact is his posting of the material may be sanctioned by AEG, but by your own words yours is not. Again, I'm not exactly sure what AEG's policy is on stuff like this, but in my world no reply means no.

    I've already had three publishers flat out tell me "no" because they think FG is too great a risk to copyrights, for the exact reasons I see right here. I really can't make it anymore black and white than that.

    Again, it is up to SW to whether or not they keep your download link live in their forums. It is my belief that doing things like this without a publisher's permission invites problems. The matra of "I'll take it down if they complain" is not good enough in my world, which is what that lame copyright statement above says to me.

    I'm sorry if this puts a damper on your work, which does look nice, but as a defender of publisher rights in this community I feel the need to point this all out.
    Last edited by Thore_Ironrock; September 6th, 2007 at 18:11.

  7. #17
    ok
    i deleted the questionable module from the zip file and updated my post with the new link. Hope you like it now. the module now only exists on my harddrive

  8. #18
    Well, better safe than sorry, and while the matter is much grayer than some make it out to be, it's easy enough to take out the module with the setting info.

    The screen graphics, character sheet and combat tracker mods are impressive by themselves, and are what really matters. Don't worry about the other stuff, you've made an awesome fan conversion!

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by GoOrange
    Well, better safe than sorry, and while the matter is much grayer than some make it out to be, it's easy enough to take out the module with the setting info.

    The screen graphics, character sheet and combat tracker mods are impressive by themselves, and are what really matters. Don't worry about the other stuff, you've made an awesome fan conversion!
    Quoted for truth.

    I want to emphasize the sentiment from my first post in this thread...how happy I am to see a community member freely sharing! Thanks.

    Later.
    Ram

    If I am walking with two other men, each of them will serve as my teacher. I will pick out the good points of the one and imitate them, and the bad points of the other and correct them in myself. -- Confucius

  10. #20
    Thanks for this great Ruleset. It was the only reason for me buying Fantasy Grounds.

    Now I just have to prepare my City of Lies Campaign and start playing.

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