Moon you are missing the point

[Trenloe]

I've never had a PM to moon be returned so....

Sorry, what you said in post #1 suggested you did communicate with him in private: "I know you know the problem is real as are the other problems we discussed in private."

[jharp]

Yes I could email him I guess.

[Sterno]

So, now we have a user who is talking about moving to another VTT due to "FGU performance problems", but I only see posts from this user relating to a potential auto save issue back in April - no further posts about their issues. This is what I'm trying to avoid, and why I posted in the thread in question - user's assuming that an edge test case is what is causing them issues, and now (because SmiteWorks aren't jumping all over this edge test case) they get disgruntled and talk about leaving FG.

If you're implying reading Weissrolf's post or other people mentioning performance problems somehow conjured up performance problems ideas in my head and got me thinking negatively about the application, that'd be wrong. And to be clear, that isn't the sole factor that makes me think of switching. But it's a contributor.

Just because I haven't made a bunch of "me too!" posts on other performance issues doesn't mean I'm not having them too. Performance problems are also notoriously hard to give reproduceable steps for... the reason I posted the auto-save one was because I did have seemingly reproduceable steps. "Get my 5 players to connect and play a game for a few hours" isn't a really set of reproducible steps I can give, but that's sort of what needs to happen for a lot of these.

Look a little deeper in my comment history and you'll see I had quite a few comments when lighting was in beta and I was testing it out. I typically shy away from "me too" posts because they just add noise. I only did it in this case because it seems like in thread after thread of these that I've read over the last year, Weissrolf ends up getting ganged up on and shouted down (usually by the same handful of people). Dude's out there trying to find out where performance issues are coming from, and maybe he's finding real problems, or maybe only corner case problems, but in a year of using FGU, I can't say my performance issues have really gotten any better overall (other than autosave is faster now... sometimes), so I'm happy for his efforts. The other reason I spoke up, as I described in my post, is that I think "Oh, that test case is an edge case that doesn't really happen, so it doesn't reflect reality!" is a bad way of looking at things. As mentioned, performance issues can be very difficulty to reproduce over a short time frame without hours of gameplay going on first. He's trying to shortcut that testing process by slamming it with a lot of data.

The response that usually ends up coming down is "it's not a priority" or "use smaller maps" or "break up your modules into pieces". It's not super satisfying. Though again, as I said before, I understand the business realities. It can be hard as a user, from the outside perspective though, to understand if SW's attitude is "performance is good enough as it is for most users... just use these workarounds if you have problems" or if it's "We are actively working on improving performance and it is a priority for us". The attitude that's coming across is definitely the former, whether or not that's reality. We hear a lot of "that isn't worth looking into" and probably could do with hearing it followed by "...but here's some specific things we are doing to improve overall performance".

If Moon and ddavidson say they don't think the issue is there and it's not worth their time, that's not the response I had a problem with in my other post. That's their call to make. It was all the other non-SW users piping in shouting the same thing, and that's why I commented. I understand it took focus away from just the technical aspects of the bug by making it more conversational, but at the same time, all the non-SW people telling Weissrolf to relax and it's no big deal had that same derailing effect, but they didn't get called out. Just the "me too" posts. I understand Weissrolf's posts and attitude rub a few people raw, but reading all those people reacting to him in every performance thread he has is starting to rub me raw.

[Weissrolf]

*smirks*

Yes, that is the reality, no one but me is affected by FGU's memory shenanigans. Coming up with easy to reproduce test scenarios is the real issue here. And me following up a whole year after my last post is unnecessarily pushy. I understand.

[Trenloe]

If you're implying reading Weissrolf's post or other people mentioning performance problems somehow conjured up performance problems ideas in my head and got me thinking negatively about the application, that'd be wrong.

Just because I haven't made a bunch of "me too!" posts on other performance issues doesn't mean I'm not having them too...

I'm not saying any of that. I specifically didn't mention the usernames of the quotes I was using as I was quoting the posts from that thread purely as an example of how one issue is not necessarily another person's issue and to ask people to post their issues in their own thread. I thought I was pretty clear about that, and also clear that I know there are issues and that people aren't conjuring them up.

I hope I made my point about how to be the most efficient in reporting and trying to identify issues.

[Weissrolf]

It is my conviction that various performance and stability problems reported by different users are based on fundamental design flaws and unwillingness to dive deep into the ugly parts of the code-base. This is substantiated by how I observe and experience these issues to be handled and my general impression of Smitework mainly working for themselves and seeing paying customers mostly only as "benefiting" third party.

Obviously this is a personal point of view.

[Sterno]

I'm not saying any of that. I specifically didn't mention the usernames of the quotes I was using as I was quoting the posts from that thread purely as an example of how one issue is not necessarily another person's issue and to ask people to post their issues in their own thread. I thought I was pretty clear about that, and also clear that I know there are issues and that people aren't conjuring them up.

I hope I made my point about how to be the most efficient in reporting and trying to identify issues.

Well, sure, but my post wasn't really about my specific performance issues. Starting a new thread would have made no sense, and I don't have any reproducible steps beyond "play for a while" anyway. I wasn't trying to hone in and say "come look at mine too". It was mostly "I'm tired of seeing all these performance posts by Weissrolf shouted down".

[BushViper]

I can't tell anyone in this thread why it happens, but my FGU sessions degrade and behave exactly like a memory leak would. Completely restarting FGU clears up the issue temporarily until the leak gets out of control again.

Normal use. None of us have the time or patience to be 'causing' problems.

[BushViper]

It is my conviction that various performance and stability problems reported by different users are based on fundamental design flaws and unwillingness to dive deep into the ugly parts of the code-base. This is substantiated by how I observe and experience these issues to be handled and my general impression of Smitework mainly working for themselves and seeing paying customers mostly only as "benefiting" third party.

Obviously this is a personal point of view.

I completely agree with you.

There are legitimate performance issues with FGU that get ignored and when you bring them up on the forums or in Discord the fanboys try to beat you in to submission or ask for the exact details causing the problem. I don't know what the problem is, that's why I'm reporting it. If I knew, I could take measures to fix it myself.

It's absolutely retarded. It's like taking a car to a mechanic him telling you nothing can be done unless you know exactly what the problem is. That's your job. Figure it out.

[Trenloe]

I hope I made my point about how to be the most efficient in reporting and trying to identify issues.

Obviously not, sigh...