Pathfinder 2e costs of rules

[Weissrolf]

It is still strange that Paizo sets the entry (drug) price so high for the FG core rules. It's opposite to how they handle their own sales. We only buy the core rules once, but then we keep on buying supplements and adventures. If the entry high price already keeps customers from buy the core rules to begin with then no further sales happen.

[Kelrugem]

With FG I assume that when Trenloe gets ill, lacks time or decides that the compensation isn't good enough then development stops dead until the gate-keepers (SW) can negotiate someone else to take over?!

Besides the option of getting another additional dev, the ruleset is not vaulted, so, actually the same can happen as in Foundry that someone of the community could develop extensions So, the argument "another one stepping up to fill a free position is always possible from within the community" also applies to FG, it would be then just about having extensions on top of the ruleset which may be integrated into the ruleset

(not saying that I think Trenloe goes Just saying that I do not completely understand why this is only an argument for Foundry, there is no "gatekeeping" since the ruleset is not vaulted)

[Weissrolf]

The ruleset may not be vaulted, but the ruleset also is not discussed here as it contains no ancestries, no items, no spells, no feats, no content. :P

The PF2 Core Rules modules as being sold in the SW store is vaulted, or is it not? And I assume that currently no one is able to do any work or support for it other than Martin Blake and Damian Hupfeld?! PF2 on Foundry has about a dozen enthusiasts doing work anywhere between intense and sporadic.

FG's PF2 can built upon FG's strong, grown but sometimes dominating core. Foundry's PF2 had to somewhat be build from scratch with Foundry itself offering little to begin with (some automation relying on third party modules, but many of those being directly integrated into the PF2 game system).

[Kelrugem]

The ruleset may not be vaulted, but the ruleset also is not discussed here as it contains no ancestries, no items, no spells, no feats, no content. :P

The PF2 Core Rules modules as being sold in the SW store is vaulted, or is it not? And I assume that currently no one is able to do any work or support for it other than Martin Blake and Damian Hupfeld?! PF2 on Foundry has about a dozen enthusiasts doing work anywhere between intense and sporadic.

FG's PF2 can built upon FG's strong, grown but sometimes dominating core. Foundry's PF2 had to somewhat be build from scratch with Foundry itself offering little to begin with (some automation relying on third party modules, but many of those being directly integrated into the PF2 game system).

Ah, then I misunderstood you; yeah, the store modules are vaulted Though, since a lot of things are SRD anyone could create a module to share with everyone, but indeed that would be a separate module altogether (but as far as I have seen a community module was already discussed and mentioned here; nothing to add from my side Sorry for my misunderstanding of the subject, happens if one just skims the thread(s) )

[Weissrolf]

SR Drag'n'Drop is one community module that does a lot of things that even the expensive Core Rules doesn't.

[ShadeRaven]

I am going to give my take on this particular part...

Trenloe is extremely smart and a talented coder, but that's not really what makes him what he is for our PF2 group here. It's the dedication and work he's willing to put in to make the PF2 Ruleset the best it can be. It's never been a question of whether or not anyone else could do what he's doing, it's a question of whether or not anyone else would be willing to make the sacrifices in time and effort to do what he's doing.

There are certainly better ways to make money, certainly easier things to do for fun or entertainment, and there are certainly more important things in life than maintaining a ruleset for a VTT.

Everything out there on the store could be done through community efforts for free, adhering to the agreements of the OGL. Even the ruleset. But, man, even my little drag and drop series requires some effort, not to mention that original (SR) Bestiary before there was an extension to make it easier. I appreciate anyone willing to put in the time (free or paid) to save me some of mine.

[Transbot9]

The ruleset may not be vaulted, but the ruleset also is not discussed here as it contains no ancestries, no items, no spells, no feats, no content. :P

The PF2 Core Rules modules as being sold in the SW store is vaulted, or is it not? And I assume that currently no one is able to do any work or support for it other than Martin Blake and Damian Hupfeld?! PF2 on Foundry has about a dozen enthusiasts doing work anywhere between intense and sporadic.

FG's PF2 can built upon FG's strong, grown but sometimes dominating core. Foundry's PF2 had to somewhat be build from scratch with Foundry itself offering little to begin with (some automation relying on third party modules, but many of those being directly integrated into the PF2 game system).

I don't understand the problem.

This isn't a cheap hobby. Cheaper than modding your car, certainly. Cheaper than investing in Warhammer without a 3D printer, certainly. Well, unless you are buying handcrafted bespoked gaming tables.

But this is the same stupid argument that people use to complain about artist's rates on twitter. I, for one, have no problem forking out the cash when I have it. It's a luxury good. If you don't like the rates, don't buy it. Input the data yourself. Play one of the fan-maintained games here on Fantasy Grounds. Get the core rulebook off a Paizo humble bundle for dirt cheap and get a decent discount on the Fantasy Grounds module. But to keep complaining about the price? Then you aren't the type of gamer I want to play with, and I don't even ask any of my players to chip in for what I buy of Fantasy Grounds.

People at Paizo and Fantasy Grounds work hard and deserve to get paid for their work.

[Weissrolf]

You are barking up the wrong tree here. I bought FG licenses for over $300 so far and am always willing to throw money at adventure content developers that spare me the time to prepare everything myself. I do wonder why Paizo makes the entry price for PF2 Core Rules on FG so high when they specifically make it low for PDFs in order to draw people in (to later buy more expensive supplements). No idea.

My reply you quoted was not about price, though, but about this part of the argument:

I have only dabbled with Foundry - so take it with a grain of salt - but what others have pointed out seems to be the main point - the non-core-VTT stuff depends on volunteers updating it (with the associated problems like updates breaking stuff, volunteers leaving, ...).

[stephan_]

This has since been brought up with more details in HywelPhillips' review here, so that may be a better place to discuss it if necessary.

[Weissrolf]

I just noticed and wondered: Why is it so much cheaper to buy the PDF + Herolab module of something like Secrets of Magic ($15 + $13) compared to buying a Fantasy Grounds module ($40) or even more for the PDF + FG module ($15 + $28)?

I recognize that formatting the fluff text for FG is extra work, but all the mechanical stuff (classes, feats, etc) is present in both products.