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  1. #1

    Goodbye for now / Goodluck (issue persisting for 12 months, no acknowledgement)

    This is not a "do it or else" message, but rather a data sharing post to have a why attached. So that I don't become analytics that just say people are buying less or are uninterested in the program.

    Due to the issue explained in detail for context below I have moved over to using Foundry VTT. Fantasygrounds is by far a superior VTT to GM with, but the performance issue has too big of an impact on my players to ignore any longer. I have already moved to Foundry and have been using it for the past 6 weeks.

    The ruleset devs have been doing a great job for the systems I play, and the program still has the best automation features and game management features on the market. I really like the pricing model and that it actively supports the RPG developers as well as the VTT and ruleset developers. I have been a big advocate on reddit and the paizo forums in the past, convinced this issue would be resolved in time and that the archaic UI was the price to pay for its overall utility (I hate the FVTT ui with a passion functionality wise)

    I just checked how much money I have spent on FG, ~$1,147usd in total so far, saying to emphasize that I have reasons to stay than a newer user will.

    Expanded information
    Youtube video I made in January showing the issue that persists currently

    With the shift to fantasygrounds unity I was quite pleased overall, major bugs but everything seemed to be moving forwards. There was one issue that stood out however, horrible framedrop in the actions tab of higher level spellcasters or complex characters... Characters that had/have no performance issues in FG:C. The issue presented in 5e and PF2e campaigns that I ran.

    After 6 months of thinking "well this is a pretty obvious issue, but they have bigger problems to solve and are working on the lighting engine / performance" I decided to make a post with a video outlining the issue, showing the same characters in FG:C. This got no response, when I posted it or after people pinged it saying they had the same issue.

    My spellcaster players were having issues every session now thanks to the slowdown and not enjoying the process. Even asking to go back to FG:C (something I didn't want to do as the added image tools in FG:U are really useful for prep and it is easier to see for a colour blind player of mine)

    I implemented work arounds such as putting character spell lists onto other characters for prepared casters. This was extra hassle for players and it helped for a bit but again player characters got to the point where they were just too complex for the program)

    The thresholds seem to be ~level 5-7 for PF2e and level 9 for 5e for prepared casters with large lists. (although in reality it presents earlier than this, it the impact is just more bearable for myself and my players)

    Testing
    • I have had each player (10 in total) test as players with the characters and new characters. All presented with the issue
    • I have had the two players who have ultimate licenses host a server with those characters and tested it, still presents
    • I have run this test on 17 unique systems ranging from ultra high end, mid end to old and out of date. 4 are laptops. All present with the same issue, although it is more pronounced on lower end hardware.
    • I have used frame limiting and vsync despite REALLY not seeing an excuse for 30fps, this doesn't change anything
    • I have run it on fresh installs of windows 10 of my own, and even run it on one windows 7 machine a player uses.
    • Two players have AMD graphics cards, makes no difference, one laptop was trialed with integrated graphics (that has its own issues)
    • The problem impacts 3D dice rolls from that window (for that player only), sometimes not even sending them to the server (this has been seen via discord screen sharing, it isn't common but was happening 3-10 times a session)
    • The problem impacts spell prep, adding new magical item automation, adding automation to spells mid session, leveling up, adjusting spells or abilities using spells for automation. It also impacts scrolling up and down to simple see a spell or read its description mid game.


    System Specs
    • My current computer is a 5800x, 32gb 3200mhz cas14, 3090rtx, 2x m.2 SSD 4k screen
    • My last computer was a 3800x, 32gb 3200mhz, 2080ti, 2x m.2 SSD (different mobo) 1440p screen
    • My partner's computer is an aging 3770k desktop with 680gtx and an i7 6700uh laptop with a 1060gtx. 1080p and 1440p respectively
    • The resolution doesn't have an impact. Powersaving settings are set to high performance.


    Second Disclaimer
    I wrote the above because I have no interest in going over it again and leaving room for people to suggest it is a one off issue or I haven't done enough before considering it an issue. I am sad that I can no longer champion FG to folks on reddit or other forums of discussion, because as good as the rulesets I play are. I know how much of an impact it had on my players and how much of a pain it was to move over to a new program so late into campaigns.

    I check back each week to see if there are any telltale fixes in the patch notes, and don't see this changing in the future. This is not a FG is dead to me post, this is a "I won't run games like this or continue to spend money / encourage other people to purchase the program anymore" post.

    Attached are the 4 character exports I used for the video in January, they are higher level now in program but I don't feel like dragging their spells over again or re-exporting the characters (which were remade in the case of the PF2e ones after the last ruleset update). It is easy enough to replicate with a fully built fresh character anyway.

    Goodluck all, I debated posting this in general but I feel this is perhaps a more apt location.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by lostsanityreturned; July 26th, 2021 at 06:42.

  2. #2
    How can it have been 12 months when FGU hasn't even been out that long.

    I'm also not seeing these issues loading your char sheets.

  3. #3
    Forewarning, I am not hugely happy and not going to mince words for the reasons specified in the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    How can it have been 12 months when FGU hasn't even been out that long.
    It was and has been, this is an issue that has existed since the beta, I am not blaming the program for having issues in the beta ofc. As I said I expected it to be resolved at some point and it ended up not being.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    I'm also not seeing these issues loading your char sheets.
    See this is why I explained my extensive testing to show it wasn't a spot issue. Just tested it myself again, assuming you actually clicked on the action tab

    - Tobera 5e fresh campaign, clicked on actions tab moved the sheet around same issue.
    - Eitri PF2e fresh campaign, clicked on actions tab moved the sheet around same issue.

    Could you record your screen and give system specs to show the action tab not slowing the sheet down. Because atm you are coming across with the "well ''IIIII' didn't experience it" tone, and that is exactly WHY I explained the extensive testing I have done.

  4. #4
    Zacchaeus's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear of your woes.

    I can certainly see some 'shuddering' of the character sheet when moving it around but I'm not sure it's as bad as your video and not something that would be an issue for me. It may of course be worse when in game with other things going on. I tried playing about with the /vsync and /imagequality settings and found that with /vsync set to 4 (25% framerate) things were significantly worse but at the default (1) it was fine. If I set imagequality to 3 (25%) then I think it speeded things up a little. So you might try looking into those settings to see if that improves things for you. https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassia...cing+GPU+Usage

    Might also be worth just checking that your graphics card isn't overriding any settings in FGU - see the same article.

    We haven't noticed this much in our games. I'm running PF2 at the moment but the characters are only level 5 so don't have a lot of spells, but in the 5e game we were playing up until a couple of months ago they were level 17 and did have some significant actions. However that was before lighting came out and we haven't played in the 5e campaign with lighting as yet.

    Win 10 x64, Intel i7 4GHz, 16 GB memory, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080.

    https://youtu.be/huJE_dJrg5M
    If there is something that you would like to see in Fantasy Grounds that isn't currently part of the software or if there is something you think would improve a ruleset then add your idea here https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featu...rerequests.php

  5. #5
    Indeed, that long lists like action tabs cause performance issues is known, but, as far as I remember, the culprit for this in unity is not yet found. (So, with that I want to say, that this problem did not get "ignored", it is just a difficult issue seemingly )

    Hope it gets resolved somewhen, and sorry to hear about your problems.
    Last edited by Kelrugem; July 26th, 2021 at 12:41.

  6. #6
    I use different sets of rules than 5E and Pathfinder and I have the same problem with tabs, we have problems with asynchronous image sharing, especially with effects and LoS, even with "good" machines and with good connections 300 MB downoad and 150 MB upload.
    As it is impossible not to make comparisons both in the operational and in the tools, especially in its visual modernization and features I had and I have to play hopeful and hope that they change and bring a modern and welcoming UI and leave the old look to the old version, that the effects are above all, that we have improvements in LoS, that the layers make a difference, especially if we want to simulate a fake 3D and give the immersion of several floors in the map, that we have the possibility of not only limiting the range of vision and light but its radius (0º to 360º) that we can rotate these lights, that we have sounds and animations, that we can somehow abandon third-party resources and just use the FGU, but especially that we have a performance that does not cause bugs and that don't take a long time to charge....
    I don't think this is just the fault of being Unity...
    I want to be able to say in the future, for many who say that the FGU was born dead...
    See! I was right! He reacted and is very good! It was worth the wait! (But since we are short-termists, I don't want to wait a lifetime to say that!)

  7. #7
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    @lostsanityreturned - there's definitely an overhead with drawing controls in FGU compared to FGC. Hopefully this will be fixed at some stage. But, can understand the frustration in your game. Sorry to see you go, hope you'll come back soon - keep hanging around!
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by lostsanityreturned View Post
    Forewarning, I am not hugely happy and not going to mince words for the reasons specified in the OP.



    It was and has been, this is an issue that has existed since the beta, I am not blaming the program for having issues in the beta ofc. As I said I expected it to be resolved at some point and it ended up not being.




    See this is why I explained my extensive testing to show it wasn't a spot issue. Just tested it myself again, assuming you actually clicked on the action tab

    - Tobera 5e fresh campaign, clicked on actions tab moved the sheet around same issue.
    - Eitri PF2e fresh campaign, clicked on actions tab moved the sheet around same issue.

    Could you record your screen and give system specs to show the action tab not slowing the sheet down. Because atm you are coming across with the "well ''IIIII' didn't experience it" tone, and that is exactly WHY I explained the extensive testing I have done.
    I will be happy to show you on discord. My name is MrDDT#0001.
    I only did the 5e as I never play PF2. I also do not use FGC anymore. When I did my testing, I opened up sample campaign, loaded up your char. Followed the steps in your video with the action sheet and moving it around. I get like no lag.

    My specs are pretty basic.

    1080Ti, i7 7700k, 16GB ram, NVME for both FG and Windows, with SSD for larger storage. I have a 4k Monitor 43" 120hz, using 60hz Vsync (until I get a better GPU)
    I run FGU at 1/4th vysnc because I don't need the extra frames.

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