FGU: Savage Worlds Deluxe: Weird War II: Script Errror 100% Reproduction

[Trenloe]

1) FG converters will convert the base product from the publisher as is. If there is grammatical issues in the base product, then they will remain in FG. That's not the fault or responsibility of FG so unfair to lay that at FGs door.
2) Layout and conversion design can vary from community developer to developer. And can also be heavily influenced by the original product. As mentioned before, older products had less of the more useful organizational tools (reference manuals, grouped lists, etc.) that were available early in FGs history. So, yes, taking a side-by-side comparison of new products vs. old will show a big difference.
3) If you have specific issues please report them clearly and succinctly in the forums. If things aren't reported they can't get fixed. SmiteWorks have employed more customer support and technical people over the last couple of years. Errors in products do get fixed. They obviously get prioritised, like any software company does with bugs, but errors do get fixed.

[Will Tomorrow]

100% I use SWEL to covert custom Savage Worlds modules all the time. I then have to go back through to make sure that things are formatted correctly, manually edit things, script in the effects automation for the edges, write custom extensions for new arcane backgrounds, Capitalize the odd word. I consider all of that legwork part of the conversion process. It is clear that some "community developers" are more into that than others, but as a dude that also owns a BUNCH of physical copies of the things that I've bought on Fantasy Grounds, it's patently false to say that it is usually the fault of the source material. That's like, c'mon dude - We're trying to have a real conversation here I thought.

It's bananas to me that the stated expectation is that it's the customers job to do the QA on products already on the marketplace, but that is a huge digression from my original point.

It's clear that I've raised your hackles here, and it is neither my intent nor something I'm really interested in - so I'm just gonna redirect it to the original post. This is an issue with 100% reproduction that it would be wonderful to have addressed in a timely manner. I hope both that and the original post are succinct enough to merit attention by the folks capable of fixing the issue. Have a good day!

[Trenloe]

...it's patently false to say that it is usually the fault of the source material.

That's not what I was saying at all. If there is a definite error, then that is something that should be fixed. Which is what I keep saying.

That's like, c'mon dude - We're trying to have a real conversation here I thought.

Huh? What's the even supposed to mean?

It's bananas to me that the stated expectation is that it's the customers job to do the QA on products already on the marketplace, but that is a huge digression from my original point.

Again, I never said that. What I'm addressing is your bemoaning of issues going back years. All I'm saying is that if you find an issue, please report it. I'm not defending actual problems in the products. But if they have got passed QA then the only way people are going to know about issues is if they're reported.

It's clear that I've raised your hackles here, and it is neither my intent nor something I'm really interested in - so I'm just gonna redirect it to the original post. This is an issue with 100% reproduction that it would be wonderful to have addressed in a timely manner. I hope both that and the original post are succinct enough to merit attention by the folks capable of fixing the issue. Have a good day!

Thank you. That's all your original post needed to get this issue fixed.

Again, thank you for reporting the issue. I have 100% confidence that this will be addressed.

[ddavison]

I have notified the extension developer and provided a link to this forum thread. Stay tuned for updates and thanks for reporting it.

[Will Tomorrow]

Again, I never said that. What I'm addressing is your bemoaning of issues going back years. All I'm saying is that if you find an issue, please report it. I'm not defending actual problems in the products. But if they have got passed QA then the only way people are going to know about issues is if they're reported.

It's just that the glaring nature of some of the issues speaks to an utter lack of editorial or QA oversight. It's certainly not EVERY module (If it was, I wouldn't be a customer) but it is enough to make it clear that there are issues with the reliance on "community developers" to get content to market. I know the folks at Pinnacle are nigh fascistic with the grammatical editorial oversight before they allow a product to be released under their license. They'd be aghast at the state of some of their content here.

Again, that is completely removed from my point, but there are whole settings I've purchased and then immediately realized weren't functional enough to use over dice and paper. It's a topic for another thread, on another day, but 100% an issue not just relegated to modules released in the ancient yesteryore of 2016.

[Will Tomorrow]

I have notified the extension developer and provided a link to this forum thread. Stay tuned for updates and thanks for reporting it.

You are a gentleman and a scholar, thank you!

[ddavison]

We perform a fairly thorough, but mostly automated technical review prior to releasing any new products. It doesn't perform any editorial review. It checks for script errors on load and it clicks on various buttons and links in the module looking for any broken links. It does not delve into more complex interactions with newly created data. We would love to have that, but it is beyond the scope of our initial test.

We send a notice to each publisher a week prior to release and they can place a hold on any product prior to release. None of our partners currently do a thorough editorial review, that I'm aware of. Their assumption is probably that we are translating it directly from edited content. If an error in text was introduced as part of the translation, then this would likely slip through and go unfixed without any reports to our customer support email.

For new ruleset updates, we similarly do not conduct a full backward regression test on everything previously released (1800+ products). We test as much of this as we can in any products we expect to get impacted.

We do try to fix reported errors or get them routed to our community devs to get fixed under our contract with them. It's part of our agreement which pays them ongoing commissions on sales of those products. Beyond that, we offer a 30-day money back guarantee for anyone who purchases something and is not satisfied with the product. It's an imperfect process, but one that produces a good balance of new product releases and happy customers.

[Moon Wizard]

A hotfix has been pushed for the SWD ruleset, which should address this error. Can you please run a new update, and let us know if you are still seeing the error?

Regards,
JPG

[Will Tomorrow]

The mostly automated bit likely explains the issues. I did about a half decade of software QA in the game industry, and nothing beats the MKI human eyeball. That is understandably cost prohibitive though. Editorial review is very badly needed on some level though. The Weird War II GM guide (whilst on the topic) has clearly never had a human lay eyes on it. Formatting errors are rife, Content is disordered, Chapters out of whack - literally unusable as a reference guide. I'd wager most the links work though.

I'm actually surprised they don't take the opportunity to check it out. I can see PEG not having the resources, but like WotC? That's genuinely surprising. A good insight into the process.

Reading over my posts, I do come off a touch more hostile than I intended, you've provided some good context for the way I've been experiencing your software/business model. Valuable insights that I sincerely thank you for.

Is there a definitive forum post somewhere that discusses the community developer process? I'd like to know more about it, not so much as a potential developer, but as an interested laymen, for every one of the 106 modules I've purchased, I've transcribed like, two more, mostly in the dark. If there is a more active place with people who have monetary incentive to do the transcribing, they probably have their finger on the pulse of the thing.

Thanks again.

[Will Tomorrow]

I can no longer reproduce the issue in FGU. I imagine the same hotfix will have resolved the issue in FGC too. I would consider the matter fully resolved. Thank you very much so for your diligence, and I am happy to have been wrong in my prognostication!