Fallout 2
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  1. #51
    Maintaining the Illusion of Hidden Androids with respect to Stress and Panic
    Capture.PNG
    Holroyd, I can't lie to you about your chances of keeping your identity secret, but you have my sympathies...

    First, it's absolutely fantastic that FG has this ruleset! Thanks! Anywhoo, onward!

    Since the ruleset treats all character sheets the same, it's tricky to hide the fact that one character is an android in disguise from the other players. Particularly since they are immune to stress, panic, can have higher attribute scores than the maximum limit, etc. and the VTT displays all of the telltale signs that a presumed human is in fact an android. People will notice that a hidden android will not be accumulating stress when a human normally would. Or if they do accumulate stress to try and hide their identity, they may get successes or trigger a panic on their stress dice; dice they shouldn't have rolled in the first place. It looks to me that our 'shy' android friends could use a little help keeping their identity a secret if they so choose.

    I think there is an interesting solution to the panic system to maintain the illusion of being human that would involve a couple of changes. First, we would need a way to identify a character as an android. This could be done by adding a setting (a dropdown menu perhaps) on the character sheet to mark the character as 'Human', 'Concealed Android', or 'Revealed Android'. Second, FG would need to change the way the stress level and rolls are handled based on how a character is identified with the new setting.

    - The 'Human' setting causes FG to build the dice pool normally, using the current stress level on the character sheet
    - The 'Concealed Android' setting causes the stress dice randomizer to use a different formula for resolving each rolled stress dice: instead of using the result of rand(0-5)+1 yielding a result between 1 and 6 (rand generates an integer between 0 and 5), the android's stress dice would use the formula of rand(0-3)+2 yielding a number between 2 and 5. It behaves like a custom d4 but would be represented in the chat window as a yellow d6. The outcome of the dice in the pool are then evaluated normally by FG. Because the android's stress dice never roll a 1, panic is never triggered. Because they never roll a 6, a success is never awarded. It also achieves the goal of dropping (systematically fudged) stress dice into the chat window to maintain the illusion that our android friend is human and is rolling stress like everyone else, but not forcing the player to keep track of any negative effects that shouldn't/didn't happen. Things that they would need to potentially unwind later during play.
    - The 'Revealed Android' option causes FG to build the dice pool as if the stress level is always zero.

    As it's laid out, the solution doesn't manipulate or misrepresent the stress level on the character sheet directly, it just causes the engine that rolls the dice to make decisions on how to implement the stress dice pool. It implements stress normally, implements it with custom dice masquerading as stress dice, or it ignores the stress level entirely. It future-proofs it somewhat so that if new features are implemented that automatically manipulate the stress level, those systems can just assume the character is always human, and the dice rolling system can use the setting in the character sheet to determine what to do about the stress level when rolling dice.

    I know there are folks who don't like the idea of fudged dice rolls so it may be a good idea for this to be a togglable feature via the GM settings so that they can opt in or out if they so choose. However, in a game with everyone physically at the table, the hidden android player would have to look like they are rolling stress dice and lie about their results (fudge them) just to maintain the illusion anyway.

    I don't have a complete idea about how best to handle attributes above 5 for androids yet. But I'll post that when I do.

  2. #52
    Wow your first post! Welcome to FG. I love the ideas. Keep them coming.

    This is the way you do it. In the log tab, type either Android or Human into the Race entry box.
    Type Android if the character is a known synthetic; Human otherwise. Typing in Andriod causes the character to ignore stress, not roll for panic, etc.
    As long as the race is Human, the character will roll Panic, etc. You then need to manually remove stress to keep it low, or role play it out. But that is easily done.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesNDM View Post
    Maintaining the Illusion of Hidden Androids with respect to Stress and Panic
    Capture.PNG
    Holroyd, I can't lie to you about your chances of keeping your identity secret, but you have my sympathies...

    First, it's absolutely fantastic that FG has this ruleset! Thanks! Anywhoo, onward!

    Since the ruleset treats all character sheets the same, it's tricky to hide the fact that one character is an android in disguise from the other players. Particularly since they are immune to stress, panic, can have higher attribute scores than the maximum limit, etc. and the VTT displays all of the telltale signs that a presumed human is in fact an android. People will notice that a hidden android will not be accumulating stress when a human normally would. Or if they do accumulate stress to try and hide their identity, they may get successes or trigger a panic on their stress dice; dice they shouldn't have rolled in the first place. It looks to me that our 'shy' android friends could use a little help keeping their identity a secret if they so choose.

    I think there is an interesting solution to the panic system to maintain the illusion of being human that would involve a couple of changes. First, we would need a way to identify a character as an android. This could be done by adding a setting (a dropdown menu perhaps) on the character sheet to mark the character as 'Human', 'Concealed Android', or 'Revealed Android'. Second, FG would need to change the way the stress level and rolls are handled based on how a character is identified with the new setting.

    - The 'Human' setting causes FG to build the dice pool normally, using the current stress level on the character sheet
    - The 'Concealed Android' setting causes the stress dice randomizer to use a different formula for resolving each rolled stress dice: instead of using the result of rand(0-5)+1 yielding a result between 1 and 6 (rand generates an integer between 0 and 5), the android's stress dice would use the formula of rand(0-3)+2 yielding a number between 2 and 5. It behaves like a custom d4 but would be represented in the chat window as a yellow d6. The outcome of the dice in the pool are then evaluated normally by FG. Because the android's stress dice never roll a 1, panic is never triggered. Because they never roll a 6, a success is never awarded. It also achieves the goal of dropping (systematically fudged) stress dice into the chat window to maintain the illusion that our android friend is human and is rolling stress like everyone else, but not forcing the player to keep track of any negative effects that shouldn't/didn't happen. Things that they would need to potentially unwind later during play.
    - The 'Revealed Android' option causes FG to build the dice pool as if the stress level is always zero.

    As it's laid out, the solution doesn't manipulate or misrepresent the stress level on the character sheet directly, it just causes the engine that rolls the dice to make decisions on how to implement the stress dice pool. It implements stress normally, implements it with custom dice masquerading as stress dice, or it ignores the stress level entirely. It future-proofs it somewhat so that if new features are implemented that automatically manipulate the stress level, those systems can just assume the character is always human, and the dice rolling system can use the setting in the character sheet to determine what to do about the stress level when rolling dice.

    I know there are folks who don't like the idea of fudged dice rolls so it may be a good idea for this to be a togglable feature via the GM settings so that they can opt in or out if they so choose. However, in a game with everyone physically at the table, the hidden android player would have to look like they are rolling stress dice and lie about their results (fudge them) just to maintain the illusion anyway.

    I don't have a complete idea about how best to handle attributes above 5 for androids yet. But I'll post that when I do.
    What a 1st post.
    "Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and the Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it."

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    Ronald Reagan

    RIP Canada, February 21, 2022

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesNDM View Post
    Maintaining the Illusion of Hidden Androids with respect to Stress and Panic
    Capture.PNG
    Holroyd, I can't lie to you about your chances of keeping your identity secret, but you have my sympathies...

    First, it's absolutely fantastic that FG has this ruleset! Thanks! Anywhoo, onward!

    Since the ruleset treats all character sheets the same, it's tricky to hide the fact that one character is an android in disguise from the other players. Particularly since they are immune to stress, panic, can have higher attribute scores than the maximum limit, etc. and the VTT displays all of the telltale signs that a presumed human is in fact an android. People will notice that a hidden android will not be accumulating stress when a human normally would. Or if they do accumulate stress to try and hide their identity, they may get successes or trigger a panic on their stress dice; dice they shouldn't have rolled in the first place. It looks to me that our 'shy' android friends could use a little help keeping their identity a secret if they so choose.

    I think there is an interesting solution to the panic system to maintain the illusion of being human that would involve a couple of changes. First, we would need a way to identify a character as an android. This could be done by adding a setting (a dropdown menu perhaps) on the character sheet to mark the character as 'Human', 'Concealed Android', or 'Revealed Android'. Second, FG would need to change the way the stress level and rolls are handled based on how a character is identified with the new setting.

    - The 'Human' setting causes FG to build the dice pool normally, using the current stress level on the character sheet
    - The 'Concealed Android' setting causes the stress dice randomizer to use a different formula for resolving each rolled stress dice: instead of using the result of rand(0-5)+1 yielding a result between 1 and 6 (rand generates an integer between 0 and 5), the android's stress dice would use the formula of rand(0-3)+2 yielding a number between 2 and 5. It behaves like a custom d4 but would be represented in the chat window as a yellow d6. The outcome of the dice in the pool are then evaluated normally by FG. Because the android's stress dice never roll a 1, panic is never triggered. Because they never roll a 6, a success is never awarded. It also achieves the goal of dropping (systematically fudged) stress dice into the chat window to maintain the illusion that our android friend is human and is rolling stress like everyone else, but not forcing the player to keep track of any negative effects that shouldn't/didn't happen. Things that they would need to potentially unwind later during play.
    - The 'Revealed Android' option causes FG to build the dice pool as if the stress level is always zero.

    As it's laid out, the solution doesn't manipulate or misrepresent the stress level on the character sheet directly, it just causes the engine that rolls the dice to make decisions on how to implement the stress dice pool. It implements stress normally, implements it with custom dice masquerading as stress dice, or it ignores the stress level entirely. It future-proofs it somewhat so that if new features are implemented that automatically manipulate the stress level, those systems can just assume the character is always human, and the dice rolling system can use the setting in the character sheet to determine what to do about the stress level when rolling dice.

    I know there are folks who don't like the idea of fudged dice rolls so it may be a good idea for this to be a togglable feature via the GM settings so that they can opt in or out if they so choose. However, in a game with everyone physically at the table, the hidden android player would have to look like they are rolling stress dice and lie about their results (fudge them) just to maintain the illusion anyway.

    I don't have a complete idea about how best to handle attributes above 5 for androids yet. But I'll post that when I do.
    THAT is some brilliant thinking! I like it.

  5. #55
    That's a very nice idea!

  6. #56
    Thanks spoofer! I'm going to have to try that out and see how it works. Based on your description, it sounds like an ideal solution for a known Android.
    Last edited by JamesNDM; February 4th, 2022 at 01:06.

  7. #57
    Concerning the Theme: please, can you consider changing the leather purses in the Assets into something more suitable with a space/sci-fi-horror theme?
    Something like thake would be nice FantasyGrounds_OqRIfIn3e2.png
    Last edited by Egheal; February 22nd, 2022 at 09:50.

  8. #58
    Here is a link to an extension I made.https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq94oZ32i0Fzho5n...JavQA?e=ilBm77 It changes the assets image, the mother chat icon and the tower normal and drop icons. It works nicely on my system, use it if you want but off course I cannot promise it will work on your system/with your extensions. Moderation: I don't know if I am autorized to post such a link/ext, please delete this post if it is not allowed.

  9. #59
    Reposting as this problem still exists and we find the warning messages about over the encumbrance limit when the character is not to be annoying.

    The Individual Marine Pack increases carrying capacity by 2. Please either:

    1. automate the increase in carrying capacity
    2. allow the player to manually increase the carrying capacity
    3. turn off the warning messages that appear in the chat when a character is using this item but is carrying more than STRENGTH x2

    Thanks!

  10. #60
    Thanks for the suggestions and the asks. We look into those.
    The past is a rudder to guide us, not an anchor to hold us back.

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