Help Needed: Turn Undead

[Hyperventilator]

No, you do not want damage to be applied automatically after a failed saving throw - or anything else. There are many exceptions to the general in 5e and if you automated that then you cause more issues having to undo it. For example a creature with Legendary resistance could decide to pass the save on a failed save; various classes have abilities which allow them to take less damage on failed saving throws, various creatures have other abilities which can have an effect and I'm sure there are a number of spells that can also have an effect.

So, whilst in the very narrow circumstances you are looking at, it seems like a top notch idea - overall it isn't.

You misunderstand. What I mean is, you would still have to press the effect button but it would take into account which of your current targets passed and which targets failed their saves. Just like with "apply half damage on your next damage roll with a successful save" but this would be "don't apply effect on your next effect button press with a successful save".

[Zacchaeus]

You misunderstand. What I mean is, you would still have to press the effect button but it would take into account which of your current targets passed and which targets failed their saves. Just like with "apply half damage on your next damage roll with a successful save" but this would be "don't apply effect on your next effect button press with a successful save".

It does that now. As I said above make sure that the option "Target: Remove on Miss" is set to "multi" and when you press the effect it will only apply the effect to those targets that failed their saving throw. This is true for anything that is applied after a failed save. See the attached screenshot. Bob has tried to turn 5 Zombies - 4 of them succeeded on their save and only one failed. When the turned effect was applied it was only placed on the one that failed.

[Hyperventilator]

It does that now. As I said above make sure that the option "Target: Remove on Miss" is set to "multi" and when you press the effect it will only apply the effect to those targets that failed their saving throw. This is true for anything that is applied after a failed save. See the attached screenshot. Bob has tried to turn 5 Zombies - 4 of them succeeded on their save and only one failed. When the turned effect was applied it was only placed on the one that failed.

Yes, I saw it before and I understood how it works. Thank you for that. However, I can't help that it left a me feeling like it's a convoluted solution that's neither user-friendly nor intuitive - even if long-time users had grown accustomed to it. I'm saying that there's room for improvement - a solution that wouldn't require toggling options situationally.

[Zacchaeus]

Yes, I saw it before and I understood how it works. Thank you for that. However, I can't help that it left a me feeling like it's a convoluted solution that's neither user-friendly nor intuitive - even if long-time users had grown accustomed to it. I'm saying that there's room for improvement - a solution that wouldn't require toggling options situationally.

At the risk of just repeating the same thing over and over; that is not a good idea.

As mentioned in several posts above automatically adding an effect or something else following a failed save will cause a lot of problems because of the many exceptions that can mean the effect shouldn't be applied.

[LordEntrails]

. I'm saying that there's room for improvement - a solution that wouldn't require toggling options situationally.

I've never changed that option. I have it set to Multi and have never found a reason to change the setting. When would you ever not want it set to Multi?

I think we just aren't quite getting your use case/steps.

[Hyperventilator]

At the risk of just repeating the same thing over and over; that is not a good idea.

As mentioned in several posts above automatically adding an effect or something else following a failed save will cause a lot of problems because of the many exceptions that can mean the effect shouldn't be applied.

You'd still have to press the effect button in my proposed solution. So luckily that wouldn't be a problem.

[Hyperventilator]

I've never changed that option. I have it set to Multi and have never found a reason to change the setting. When would you ever not want it set to Multi?

I think we just aren't quite getting your use case/steps.

Not everyone uses Fantasy Grounds the same way, however. It's an option, so inherently different people prefer different settings.

Use case / steps:

1. Prefer to have option "Target: Remove on miss" on "Off"
2. Decide to use the Turn Undead feature
3. Open Options
4. Switch option "Target: Remove on miss" to "Multi" [which you learn to do for Turn Undead's sake only by making forum posts about why Turn Undead doesn't seem to work (not being bitter/snarky, I'm merely talking about user experience here)]
5. Press "Cast"
6. Press "Effect"
7. Switch option "Target: Remove on miss" back to "Off"
8. Close Options

In my solution, the steps would be:

1. Prefer to have option "Target: Remove on miss" on "Off"
2. Decide to use the Turn Undead feature
3. Press "Cast"
4. Press "Effect"

[LordEntrails]

Not everyone uses Fantasy Grounds the same way, however. It's an option, so inherently different people prefer different settings.

Use case / steps:

1. Prefer to have option "Target: Remove on miss" on "Off"
2. Decide to use the Turn Undead feature
3. Open Options
4. Switch option "Target: Remove on miss" to "Multi" [which you learn to do for Turn Undead's sake only by making forum posts about why Turn Undead doesn't seem to work (not being bitter/snarky, I'm merely talking about user experience here)]
5. Press "Cast"
6. Press "Effect"
7. Switch option "Target: Remove on miss" back to "Off"
8. Close Options

In my solution, the steps would be:

1. Prefer to have option "Target: Remove on miss" on "Off"
2. Decide to use the Turn Undead feature
3. Press "Cast"
4. Press "Effect"

Absolutely different people use FG differently. My point wasn't that I could see why you would want to turn it on for the Turn Undead (or fireball, or web, or...) spell, but I've never seen (my use case) a reason to have the option "Off" or "On". Once I learned about "Multi" I've set that on all my campaigns and it's what I always use.

So the question is more, and this is just for my understanding (again, not saying you are doing anything wrong), why would you want it "Off" in the first place?

[Hyperventilator]

Absolutely different people use FG differently. My point wasn't that I could see why you would want to turn it on for the Turn Undead (or fireball, or web, or...) spell, but I've never seen (my use case) a reason to have the option "Off" or "On". Once I learned about "Multi" I've set that on all my campaigns and it's what I always use.

So the question is more, and this is just for my understanding (again, not saying you are doing anything wrong), why would you want it "Off" in the first place?

If you want your character to retain its target after a missed attack, you would want it Off. Everybody in my group has it on "Off" so that they don't have to re-target their target every round if they miss. It's a player preference.

If there was no reason whatsoever to have it Off (or On), it wouldn't have been implemented as an option.

[Zacchaeus]

If you have Remove Target on Miss set to Multi it only fires if you have multiple targets. If you are targetting a single enemy and you miss it doesn't do anything with the targetting. Setting the option to Multi will only remove targets on a miss when multiple targets are selected so that things like effects or saving throws can automatically function. I'm actually not really sure why this option exists TBH; it seems to me that the only logical one is to set it to multi; and so the other two are superfluous.