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  1. #1

    Odd Behavior in CoC7 Ruleset

    Here is some weird behavior I just noticed with the 7e ruleset.

    After starting a new campaign and loading all the modules, I created a character.

    When the character sheet is created, a duplicate set of all of the skills is automatically created by FG in the Skills library. These are all shared by default, just like when the GM shares an image or a story item.
    However, these skills are somehow strangely linked to the character sheets.

    I thought it was weird that it created duplicate skills, so I unshared and deleted the duplicates. Doing this broke all of the character sheets. It removed all of the skills from the character sheet skills page, and then every time someone opens a new character sheet, the FG gets a console error as it searches for the missing skill. There doesn't seem to be any way of fixing it either, so you just have to delete the campaign and start over, otherwise any time a player opens their skill tab, you will all be assaulted with console errors.

    I'm not sure if it's a bug or just a weird result of the way the character sheet was designed, but considering that it can ruin the whole campaign, it seems like something worth bringing up. Just in case anyone else notices the duplicate skills and thinks to unshare or delete them, take this as a PSA/warning not to do that! You will break your entire campaign!

  2. #2
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Can you let us know what version you are running? And if you are using any extension? And can you post screen shots or post the logs?

    You can get more info from the link in my sig on the type of info that will help identify this.

  3. #3
    Sure! This happens using FG Classic 3.3.11. It's easily reproducible; I just tried it on a fresh campaign and got it to happen. No extensions or mods, just vanilla Fantasy Grounds using the up-to-date Call of Cthulhu 7th edition ruleset.

    I've attached some screenshots.

    screenshot 1: the skills list upon a fresh load of a new game using the CoC7 ruleset. The skills list comes pre-populated with a number of skills which are publicly shared.

    screenshot 2: after loading the CoC modules, a duplicate set of skills appears. These are also visible to players, as players will load open the modules as well. Redundancy itself isn't a major issue, of course, but the problem comes next:

    screenshot 3: the console error that you get if you unshare or delete any of those original skills. This happens any time you make a new character, any time you load the skills tab, any time you try to edit your skills, etc. It's constant, and if you just accidentally remove one of those original skills, you can't ever fix it. Your campaign will constantly get this error popping up all the time, and you'll need to delete the campaign and start a new one.

    So it's less of a "bug" I suppose, than it is a strange design flaw in the ruleset. The character sheets are built to reference items that are delete-able, and deleting them breaks the ruleset. I think those skills need to be made non-delete-able, or else somehow not linked to the character sheet. It's far to easy to accidentally unshare or delete them and ruin a campaign.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    • File Type: jpg 2.jpg (73.5 KB, 8 views)
    • File Type: jpg 3.jpg (17.2 KB, 7 views)

  4. #4
    As far as I can tell, the skills are built into the ruleset and also loaded in by various modules (CoC7 reference, Pulp Cthulhu, Down Darker Trails, etc.) each creating duplicates. So you could end up with quite a few copies of skills. However all the skills in the selected era should already be pre-loaded into the character sheet. so you could probably ignore the skill window entirely.

    Deleting the skills will break the link to the era window, and the era window is what the character sheet uses to determine what skills to put on the sheet.

  5. #5

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    Hi all,

    As mentioned above, this is caused by the inclusion of the skills in the CoC 7e Reference library module. Given that this information is now pre-loaded by the Ruleset when the campaign is created, I believe it is redundant in the module.

    I will remove the Skills from the "CoC 7e Reference" module and would ask you to test to see that there are no untoward side effects.

    I will post again when the module is in the TEST channel.

    Regards,

    Ian

  6. #6
    Thanks, I will give those a test when they become available.

    Just to clarify - the main issue is not that the skills are duplicated. That's just a minor annoyance. The main issue is that those skills can be deleted, and that ends up causing tons of errors.
    I think the best fix would be make sure those skills can't be deleted, so that it will become impossible to ruin a campaign by accidentally deleting them.

  7. #7
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    Thanks, I will give those a test when they become available.

    Just to clarify - the main issue is not that the skills are duplicated. That's just a minor annoyance. The main issue is that those skills can be deleted, and that ends up causing tons of errors.
    I think the best fix would be make sure those skills can't be deleted, so that it will become impossible to ruin a campaign by accidentally deleting them.
    But that way leads to madness, and Cthulhu!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    Thanks, I will give those a test when they become available.

    Just to clarify - the main issue is not that the skills are duplicated. That's just a minor annoyance. The main issue is that those skills can be deleted, and that ends up causing tons of errors.
    I think the best fix would be make sure those skills can't be deleted, so that it will become impossible to ruin a campaign by accidentally deleting them.
    Thanks for the clarification.

    The system does allow the keeper to create their own skills and eras, completely changing the skills available. As such, we allow the deletion of the default skills too, so that only the correct skills are available.

    I guess you do need to be carefull what you delete as it can cause problems. If you do delete some skills, you can fix the campaign by deleting all of the skills and eras, then restart. On restarting, it will recreate the default skills and eras.

    The TEST version should have rolled out yesterday, if you want to test it.
    Last edited by ianmward; September 23rd, 2020 at 12:05.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ianmward View Post
    If you do delete some skills, you can fix the campaign by deleting all of the skills and eras, then restart. On restarting, it will recreate the default skills and eras.

    This is very good to know! I hadn't thought of deleting the Eras as well, but that is something to keep in mind (though I hopefully won't make the mistake of deleting the skills again).

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