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  1. #1

    Where are the W.O.I.N. Forums?

    I've been exploring the W.O.I.N. pen'n'paper rules and one of the reasons being that they're also available as a ruleset for Fantasy Grounds.
    I'm wondering why the W.O.I.N. ruleset doesn't have it's own forum here at fantasygrounds.com like the other available rulesets do?

  2. #2
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Chicken <> Egg?
    WOIN discussion are in the CoreRPG (generic) sub-forum. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...r-Game-Systems

    At this point their is not enough of a group of WOIN users/discussions to justify a sub-forum just for the ruleset. If the community becomes large enough or active enough, then one would be made for it.

  3. #3
    Oh OK, fair enough. TBH that could influence my decision to use the ruleset for a campaign, as I've read a few recent posts on other sites along the lines of things that aren't working not being fixed in a timely manner. It leaves me with the impression that the ruleset isn't embraced by many FG users and consequently it isn't getting the attention it deserves by the devs.

  4. #4
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    My understanding is that the dev for this is a community dev and not one of the SmiteWorks devs (which is typical for most niche rulesets). Check out that thread and decide for yourself if the ruleset has the level of support you desire.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by LordEntrails View Post
    My understanding is that the dev for this is a community dev and not one of the SmiteWorks devs (which is typical for most niche rulesets). Check out that thread and decide for yourself if the ruleset has the level of support you desire.
    If that's the case, it puzzles me why it's a payed-for ruleset?
    Are there other rulesets developed by community devs for sale @ the fantasygrouds.com store?

  6. #6
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kronovan View Post
    If that's the case, it puzzles me why it's a payed-for ruleset?
    Are there other rulesets developed by community devs for sale @ the fantasygrouds.com store?
    Yes, almost every ruleset except for CoreRPG, D&D 3.5 & 5E are created by community devs. Some of the older niche ones are also now supported by SmiteWorks because the community dev has turned it over to SW. Often the reason they are paid for rulesets is because of licensing requirements with the IP holders. (edit: which means SW assumes support if the community dev does not meet obligations).

    For instance, the D&D Classic ruleset (which is basically AD&D 1e/2e) was originally an unofficial ruleset created by the community member Celestian. He did such an impressive job on it, a license with WotC to convert and sell the AD&D PHB, MM, DMG, and modules was obtained. But I'm sure one of the agreements was that the ruleset itself must become official (would be interesting to sell a product that relies on something not supported by SmiteWorks).

    For WOIN, I'm not sure how it came about, but it was developed under license by a community member. It is an official ruleset, and were the community member leave the community or not meet their obligations, then SmiteWorks could and would take over direct support for the ruleset.

    All of the official rulesets do have a minimum level of function and support that is guaranteed by SmiteWorks. In my opinion, I think most of the community disappointment with any of these less prominent rulesets is that they see the automation and support provided for the showcase ruleset (5E) and some of the others (like D&D Class, PF2e, ...) and expect all commercial rulesets to have that same level. Which doesn't happen and really hasn't been promised.

    Part of this may come from contracted community devs who have life challenges, or limited time, and that the rulesets and content do not sell enough to support fulltime support. For instance (and this is just me spitballing and making HUGE assumptions) say a corner ruleset like WOIN sells 1000 products for $50 each. Taking another WAG, perhaps the dev gets $5000 to build and support it (all from sales). And it probably took 500-2000 hours to make that ruleset and core products. That's means the dev is not doing this to make much money (otherwise they would just work overtime at their 'job') and that such funds would never support SmiteWorks to hire someone.

    None of that changes with whatever platform/VTT you chose. The economics are all similar and it comes down to the developer doing the work out of their own love for the system, and having the means to allocate their own level of effort/commitment.

  7. #7
    The current community developer for WOIN is MadBeardMan who has a lot of projects on his plate but makes an effort to round robin them. He is usually pretty responsive to individual requests. The most recent update can be found here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...l=1#post530770

    I'm not familiar with the ruleset but the people there likely know more.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kronovan View Post
    If that's the case, it puzzles me why it's a payed-for ruleset?
    Are there other rulesets developed by community devs for sale @ the fantasygrouds.com store?
    Read through the thread for the ruleset and make your decision. It seems like support and information sharing has been up and down throughout its history. I have been waiting on simple answers for too long now. But then again I bought the ruleset, returned it because I wasn't happy with the support, then shortly after bought it again because I really want to play it. So at this point I am just waiting and hoping that it will meet my expectations someday, but I am no longer upset by the lack of progress.
    I have even posted in the EN World forums and received some quick feedback initially from someone else associated with Smiteworks, but that quickly disappeared as well. So it is what it is. You can certainly play the system in the ruleset, but some basic automation functionality I would expect from a paid ruleset it not yet there.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzledNoob View Post
    Read through the thread for the ruleset and make your decision. It seems like support and information sharing has been up and down throughout its history. I have been waiting on simple answers for too long now. But then again I bought the ruleset, returned it because I wasn't happy with the support, then shortly after bought it again because I really want to play it. So at this point I am just waiting and hoping that it will meet my expectations someday, but I am no longer upset by the lack of progress.
    I have even posted in the EN World forums and received some quick feedback initially from someone else associated with Smiteworks, but that quickly disappeared as well. So it is what it is. You can certainly play the system in the ruleset, but some basic automation functionality I would expect from a paid ruleset it not yet there.
    Thanks for the reply GrizzledNoob.

    Those are very candid and helpful comments. At this point I've yet to run or play W.O.I.N., but I feel encouraged to continue with my read of the CRB, with the idea that I'll consider a purchase of the FG ruleset if they look suitable for my campaign and group.

  10. #10
    If you choose to purchase the ruleset be aware that there is a 30-day money back guarantee (from the FG store, not sure how it works on Steam) just email support. Hopefully you like it and it'll work for you, but if you don't you have an option.

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