5E - Theogeek's Improved Critical

[TheoGeek]

Ah...so FGU doesn't play by the rules then? This may get messy before it gets better.

[TheKoyoteKid]

I'm glad to see official support for PF2. Thanks for adding this!

[TheoGeek]

I'll say "official" in quotes because its still a work in progress...I think it just makes PF2 crits behave like 5e crits with the extension. There's work to do to get the PF behavior consistent with PF2 player expectations. So, I'm recruiting playtesters because I don't run PF2.

[TheKoyoteKid]

I'll say "official" in quotes because its still a work in progress...I think it just makes PF2 crits behave like 5e crits with the extension. There's work to do to get the PF behavior consistent with PF2 player expectations. So, I'm recruiting playtesters because I don't run PF2.

I volunteer as tribute, err I mean as a playtester

[TheoGeek]

Sweet!

[TheKoyoteKid]

To establish a baseline of expectations, there are two options for doubling damage in Pathfinder 2e, as listed on page 451 of the Core Rulebook:

"...When this happens, you roll the damage normally, adding all the normal modifiers, bonuses, and penalties. Then you double or halve the amount as appropriate (rounding down if you halved it). The GM might allow you to roll the dice twice and double the modifiers, bonuses, and penalties instead of doubling the entire result, but this usually works best for single-target attacks or spells at low levels when you have a small number of damage dice to roll. Benefits you gain specifically from a critical hit, like the flaming weapon rune’s persistent fire damage or the extra damage die from the fatal weapon trait, aren’t doubled."

Fantasy Grounds appears to use the optional rule, perhaps because its cool to see the extra dice rolling So what we should see in play is that the number of dice and modifiers are doubled and then rolled, rather than rolled and then doubled.

For testing, I have a Human Rogue with STR 14, and DEX 14. I chose the Rogue so that I can also test the impact of Sneak Attack. They are equipped with a mace, a rapier, and a pick. These weapons were chosen because they all have a d6 base damage, the rapier has deadly d8, and the pick has fatal d10

Standard damage:
Mace - 1d6+2
Rapier - 1d6+2
Pick - 1d6+2

Critical damage (without extension)
Mace - 2d6+4
Rapier - 2d6+1d8+4
Pick - 3d10+4

Critical damage (with extension, max dice: damage = yes)
Mace - 6+1d6+4
Rapier - 6+1d6+1d8+4
Pick - 10+2d10+4

Standard damage with Sneak Attack:
Mace - 1d6+2
Rapier - 1d6+1d6+2
Pick - 1d6+2

Critical damage with Sneak Attack (without extension)
Mace - 2d6+4
Rapier - 2d6+1d8+2d6+4
Pick - 3d10+4

Critical damage with Sneak Attack (with extension, max dice: damage = yes)
Mace - 6+1d6+4
Rapier - 6+1d6+1d8+2d6+4
Pick - 10+2d10+4

This is what I have tested with the current 6.0 extension and it is what I expected to see happen. I haven't tested with Striking runes, but I'll have a look at that later this weekend.

[spoonhead]

To establish a baseline of expectations, there are two options for doubling damage in Pathfinder 2e, as listed on page 451 of the Core Rulebook:

"...When this happens, you roll the damage normally, adding all the normal modifiers, bonuses, and penalties. Then you double or halve the amount as appropriate (rounding down if you halved it). The GM might allow you to roll the dice twice and double the modifiers, bonuses, and penalties instead of doubling the entire result, but this usually works best for single-target attacks or spells at low levels when you have a small number of damage dice to roll. Benefits you gain specifically from a critical hit, like the flaming weapon rune’s persistent fire damage or the extra damage die from the fatal weapon trait, aren’t doubled."

Fantasy Grounds appears to use the optional rule, perhaps because its cool to see the extra dice rolling So what we should see in play is that the number of dice and modifiers are doubled and then rolled, rather than rolled and then doubled.

For testing, I have a Human Rogue with STR 14, and DEX 14. I chose the Rogue so that I can also test the impact of Sneak Attack. They are equipped with a mace, a rapier, and a pick. These weapons were chosen because they all have a d6 base damage, the rapier has deadly d8, and the pick has fatal d10

-SNIP-

This is what I have tested with the current 6.0 extension and it is what I expected to see happen. I haven't tested with Striking runes, but I'll have a look at that later this weekend.

But none of those options double the damage as per the rules. If you choose the option of double dice, then the at the moment damage bonus is quadrupled not doubled.

As per my post #72 above and the rules discussed in post #76.

[TheKoyoteKid]

So in your example from #72, the *weapon* dice are doubling properly? In that the FGU is rolling two dice, then the extension drops the second die, and doubles the first. I think that is what it is doing. But is then improperly doubling the bonus from Strength a second time?

Edit: TheoGeek, rather than letting the ruleset roll 2 dice, then have the extension drop the second and double the first to more accurately emulate the primary method in the core rulebook... why not set the second damage die equal to the first, similarly to how you maximise the 1st of the two dice with the (damage dice = max) function?

[spoonhead]

The dice are working as intended. Just the bonus is wrong. Your suggestion could work.

[TheoGeek]

Ok... so maybe start out by fixing the bonus and then we'll go from there?