Savage Worlds Effects Help

[rigerco]

Had it slightly wrong:
[> Attack|Damage vs Aberations|Magical Beasts +1]

Here's an example from Ikael, who wrote the keyword system:
[>Damage vs Reptile|Dragon +8]

The post you reference for Sneak Attack was written before the current Key Word system was implemented (which was just this past spring), but you would not apply those effects to the attacker, you apply them to the target. When @ is used it is always applied to the target.

I think if you wanted an attack that reflected sneak attack then you would make sub attacks to the weapons and manually put a +2 in the Trait Info box of the attack and put the extra damage in that portion of the Attack Info box.

[FrodoB]

Shows the +2 damage but I'm wondering if maybe the Extra: effects just don't work with @?

It seems that way. I can't get it to work either, with or without keywords. Works fine if it's an effect on the character itself.

I think this might be because the dice are determined the moment you click them, before the ruleset knows what the target is - but I'm not sure.

[zarlor]

Had it slightly wrong:
[> Attack|Damage vs Aberations|Magical Beasts +1]

Here's an example from Ikael, who wrote the keyword system:
[>Damage vs Reptile|Dragon +8]

Oooh, I didn't see that example when I was looking. My search-fu must be failing me. In this instance the > is not needed (won't work, actually) and the two words for "Magical Beast" (it doesn't use plurals in the keywords already set on the beasties) throws it off, so instead I stuck to this, which does seem to work:

[Attack|Damage vs Aberration|Magical +1]

So that will catch anything with the Magical keyword rather than both the "Magical" and Beast" keywords, but we'll just deal with. Thanks a ton for the help!

The post you reference for Sneak Attack was written before the current Key Word system was implemented (which was just this past spring), but you would not apply those effects to the attacker, you apply them to the target. When @ is used it is always applied to the target.

I think if you wanted an attack that reflected sneak attack then you would make sub attacks to the weapons and manually put a +2 in the Trait Info box of the attack and put the extra damage in that portion of the Attack Info box.

So, right @ is on the target, but we're talking about the target being the one with the Vulnerable effect anyway, not the attacker, so it would apply to the target, yes? Say a Goblin gains the Vulnerable effect then if the condition shows a keyword of sneakattack then it would apply that, right? I do have him set-up with sub-attacks now, but I was trying to save him some clutter. The players I have are pretty new to FGU and anything I can do to make their lives easier is what I'm working towards. It looks like the listed way (@sneakattack Damage +2) works just fine, it's just the Extra : Damage method that doesn't seem to want to work. I'm guess it just isn't coded to handle the Extra: stuff, or is calculated outside of the right timing, is all. Oh well, just a nicety and, as you noted, there is a workaround to that with the sub-attacks for it.

[rigerco]

I hear ya about making it easier for the players. I've added a lot of automation to my game (wait until you try to deal with damage resistance!) and they just want more. In this case, though, I feel the voice of Doswelk saying that there can be too much automation.

SNEAK ATTACK: Rogues add an additional d6 to their damage when they have the Drop on their victim, or the victim is Vulnerable. This applies to Athletics (throwing), Fighting, or Shooting attacks.

The Sneak Attack isn't making the target Vulnerable, the target already has to be Vulnerable. So the Rogue used Stealth and made the target Vulnerable on a success, or got The Drop on a raise. It makes more sense to me to use the existing two Effects on the target to establish the condition and then have a sub attack on weapons for using Sneak Attack, building it with the extra d6 at that point.

Be careful using "Magic" as an independent keyword. It may be one of those words reserved by the system for baked in results. I think you can get by with "MagicalBeast" or "Magical_Beast" and still get your effect to trigger.

[zarlor]

Right, that's what I was saying about the Vulnerable, it's on the target and all we'd be doing is registering it with the keyword. But, not working with the extra die language so not important anyway.

If it were set with an independent keyword of "Magic", I would agree, but in this case the keyword is "Magical" which is a lot more restrictive. Even so the rule set has the keywords on those things already so I'm definitely not going to go through every single possible NPC Magical Beast and add another "MagicalBeast" or "Magical_Beast" keyword to it. I have my limits, you know! Particularly since it only applies to attacks and damage (and only a +1 at that) I think any edge cases that come through we can recognize and deal with as they happen. Unless you're saying that "MagicalBeast" or "Magical_Beast" would actually look for both keywords of "Magical" and "Beast" and only if both exist would it trigger? In which case I could at least give that a try, then.

[Mike Serfass]

Extra doesn't work with @ (incoming) damage.

[Varsuuk]

How are you adding the Size ability? It uses magic strings, so if it's not typed just so it won't calculate Size or Toughness modifiers.

If you put this in CT

[Size -3]

it will subtract Size modifiers from attacks and adjust the Toughness.
Attachment 56521

It used to be that on the NPC, you drop the Size ability, then change

to

or

or

it would calculate the same as the effect.
Now, however, it only calculates attack modifiers.

If you put the Size effect under the ability on the NPC sheet, it used to double up. Now it will only calculate attack mods, not Toughness.

I am confused

I tried in (SWADE) NPC ("infected newborn" for a SWADE conversion of wotd) and put in ability:

[Size -1]

Size -1

Neither worked.

If I drag/dropped the Hindrance "Small" to the NPC sheet, when I do damage, it properly reduces Toughness... but the too hit, it seems to consider the creature "Very Small" instead of "Small" so it subtracts -4. Where/why is it doing this?

Oddly, I tried creating a new "Hindrance" inline on the NPC sheet called "FooBar", the Notes line was "[Size -1, Toughness -1]" and it does NOT do any adjustment on the attack (from NPC "soldier") but if I apply dmg, it does on a roll of 19: "Toughness: 3,FooBar -1 = 2 -> 4 Wounds!" (note, this was me mucking about, if I was using this with -1 Tough, I'd set NPC sheet to 4 Toughness.

Now, I get that we should set NPC toughness to it's correct value for it's size (3 in this case). No problem. What I was hoping to automate is a regular sized (99.99999% of those attacking infected newborns so I could just give them [@Attack -1] I guess... but.... I found the "Size" adjust when examing the Small hindrance (cos looked up half-men in rules on a whim) and thought THAT should be the way if it works on NPC sheets. Oddly, it seems to -1 x2 (I searched for othe mods, nope)


Heck to test that I didn't somehow double mod it, I created a new NPC type called "XXX" and dragged Hindrance: Small onto it and got this on attk:

Shooting: Glock (9mm)
[Infected Newborn] [vs Very Small -4 = 1] Target: 4 -> Miss!

Why is it going to "Very Small"???

[Varsuuk]

OK - MUCH trial and error later... (and looking at the code and how it scans for the keyword to employ this...)

I edited the Hindrance and made it just "Small (Minor)" and REMOVED the "Notes line" that got added to the NPC and that did it. So, it was double dipping.

So, after messing more, I realized for NPC, I can use add an ability (didn't drag the hindrance) with SMALL in name and an effect of [Toughness -1] and all works. Or I srag the hindrance then change the

<rolled 16 (2 d6 explosions)>
[XXX] [vs Small -2 = 14] Target: 4 -> Hit with Raise!
<rolled 2d6 +1d6(the raise) - for dmg = 
[XXX] Toughness: 5, Small (Minor) -1 = 4 -> 2 Wounds!

So... probably, I will put it in Abils instead cos it isn't listed as a "hindrance" it's the default size

[Jiminimonka]

OK - MUCH trial and error later... (and looking at the code and how it scans for the keyword to employ this...)

I edited the Hindrance and made it just "Small (Minor)" and REMOVED the "Notes line" that got added to the NPC and that did it. So, it was double dipping.

So, after messing more, I realized for NPC, I can use add an ability (didn't drag the hindrance) with SMALL in name and an effect of [Toughness -1] and all works. Or I srag the hindrance then change the

<rolled 16 (2 d6 explosions)>
[XXX] [vs Small -2 = 14] Target: 4 -> Hit with Raise!
<rolled 2d6 +1d6(the raise) - for dmg = 
[XXX] Toughness: 5, Small (Minor) -1 = 4 -> 2 Wounds!

So... probably, I will put it in Abils instead cos it isn't listed as a "hindrance" it's the default size

Scale modifiers are automatically calculated, so you don't need to add the modifiers, just make the target the right size. On the NPC sheet you can just type their size in the size box.

Edit: it seems you worked this all out

[Varsuuk]

Scale modifiers are automatically calculated, so you don't need to add the modifiers, just make the target the right size. On the NPC sheet you can just type their size in the size box.

Edit: it seems you worked this all out

Ohhhh - I was in the middle of taking screenshots because I couldn't find a "size" box to type size into. Then, on the last, I saw 2 boxes, SPACE and REACH... which are some fields in the sizes collection in SWADE.

function getSizes()
	return {
		{ sName = Interface.getString("size_gargantuan"), nMinSize = 12, nTargetModifier = 6, nAdditionalWounds = 3, nDefaultSpace = 4, nReachMod = 3 },
		{ sName = Interface.getString("size_huge"), nMinSize = 8, nTargetModifier = 4, nAdditionalWounds = 2, nDefaultSpace = 3, nReachMod = 2 },
		{ sName = Interface.getString("size_large"), nMinSize = 4, nTargetModifier = 2, nAdditionalWounds = 1, nDefaultSpace = 2, nReachMod = 1 },
		{ sName = Interface.getString("size_normal"), nMinSize = -1, nDefaultSpace = 1, nReachMod = 0 },
		{ sName = Interface.getString("size_small"), nMinSize = -2, nTargetModifier = -2, nDefaultSpace = 1, nReachMod = 0 },
		{ sName = Interface.getString("size_verysmall"), nMinSize = -3, nTargetModifier = -4, nDefaultSpace = 1, nReachMod = 0 },
		{ sName = Interface.getString("size_tiny"), nMinSize = -4, nTargetModifier = -6, nDefaultSpace = 1, nReachMod = 0 }
	}
end

But when I looked at that to try to figue out how to USE it, I only figured out that I can put the key (normal, small, huge, etc) in the Special Abilities section for it to pick it up. The problem is, I wanted "small" to be -1 (this was originally a SWD thing) as well as another char having Size +1, all of which are in "normal" range.


I had tried Size -1, Size 1 in the Special Abilts but attacking from an unset guy to a guy with [Size -1] resulted in no change to the Toughness (it isn't automatic likely in NPCs) and no change to hit (because this changed from SWD where it was -1 to SWADE where first "scale" mod is at -2 Size (for -2 to hit). If I put [Size -2], I get the tohit mod, not the toughness mod. So, in the end for NPCs all within "normal", if I wanted to give a Size-1 one a -1 to Toughness and to be hit, I did it with [@Attack -1, Toughness -1] (basically nothing is swinging at those zombies other than normal humans so applying -1 always is fine)

But of course, I could have as easily just added -1 to Toughness directly (I like things as mods for non-important reasons I won't get into at length here, I accept that modifying it DIRECTLY makes sense though) and the Size=0 swinging on Size=-1 being a -1 to hit is not a thing anymore in SWADE where the "ranges" came in for "normal" of -1->3 , so any size of -1 to 3 could attack each other with no +/-. So my solution was as above for this one case assuming these creatures were balanced with the "SWD size" taken into account.

BUT - all that aside, I DID try putting in values in SPACE and it did not trigger mods like Size -2 vs a Size 1 creature did.

What "SIZE" box are you referring to on NPC sheet?