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  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by jhathawaytn View Post
    I have a question about using Polymorph as a PC. I have a Druid that was set up via Game Master, level 2 Moon Druid with wildshape. I'm able to add beast per SilentRuin's video and can change between NPC as the GM no problem. However when I log into the game as PC, I'm unable to click the ACTIVATE button on the character sheet. Is this intended to only be changed via GM? If not, any suggestions? I'm running only the Polymorph extension.
    Thanks for the help.
    It must be the turn of the PC or NPC under control of the player. As in Combat Tracker MUST have the turn icon on that NPC/PC in order to do any activation. This was to prevent nuts from just playing with it outside of the DM's notice - your turn - spotlight on you. As long as the ownership for the NPC has been done correctly (dropping NPC link in combat tracker on player portrait while default option to do full ownership for NPCs is on) then the button will be clickable by player during the NPC's turn.

    [Wait I think I get it - yes your character sheet is active if you login with it already polymorphed - the text at top should be saying DO NOT USE THIS SHEET - meaning you need to double click on the polymorph token to bring back up the NPC sheet - sorry I think I misunderstood].
    Last edited by SilentRuin; December 12th, 2020 at 04:18.

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by jhathawaytn View Post
    I have a question about using Polymorph as a PC. I have a Druid that was set up via Game Master, level 2 Moon Druid with wildshape. I'm able to add beast per SilentRuin's video and can change between NPC as the GM no problem. However when I log into the game as PC, I'm unable to click the ACTIVATE button on the character sheet. Is this intended to only be changed via GM? If not, any suggestions? I'm running only the Polymorph extension.
    Thanks for the help.
    IN case you missed my addendum to last message - there are always two sheets (the PC and the blended NPC it polymorphed into). When you polymorph the blended NPC sheet pops up - you can get to either the PC or blended NPC sheet by double clicking on that sheets polymorph token field.

    When you come up in application with a polymorph in effect - you will have the PC sheet and it will state DO NOT USE THIS SHEET up near the top - double click on the map/combat tracker/ or PC polymorph token field to get the polymorph blended NPC sheet back up.
    Last edited by SilentRuin; December 12th, 2020 at 04:26.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by SilentRuin View Post
    It must be the turn of the PC or NPC under control of the player. As in Combat Tracker MUST have the turn icon on that NPC/PC in order to do any activation. .
    First of all, love the extension, etc, etc!

    It took me a LONG time to find the answer for why the Druid I was controlling was not able to make the 'Active' work for the wild shape. Finally read through the 9 pages and found a reference there, then found this thread on page 10.

    Some suggestions:
    - Add a note about this "must be the turn of the PC / NPC" to the *first* overview post in this thread. Similarly, add a note that only the host can add beasts to the list of available polymorphs.
    - When it's not the turn of the PC or NPC, and they try to click the 'Active' button, add an error message in the chat window, "While the GM can activate at any time, the players may only activate on their turn".
    - As the host, the graphic of 'PC'->'?'->'NPC'... what is that supposed to mean?
    - When my druid, 'Peaeye' changes to a Brown bear, I wish the CT automatically showed the name "Peaeye - Brown Bear" just to clarify whose turn it is.
    - In Options, consider renaming the section header, 'Shared NPC (GM)' to include the label Polymorphism somewhere. It took me awhile to figure out it's your setting! And full disclosure, I've read your descriptions and still get confused on what the label, 'Fully Own Shared CT NPC' is supposed to represent. When I read the description for v1.5 I got closer to understanding, but likely some rephrasing in that paragraph could help.
    - The header on the character sheet, "USE THIS SHEET. No Poly currently in effect." Consider only showing either, 'Polymorph currently active' or 'Polymorph NOT currently active', and then use a tooltip to explain which sheet to use. At a minimum, flip the order so it says, "No polymorph currently in effect, so use this sheet." and "Polymorph currently in effect, so use the reference sheet of the beast."
    - To deactivate the Wild Shape, consider a similar safety check you do with another of your options where they have to double-click to confirm? And/or, consider when the red 'Active' button is visible, include an 'X' button to cancel the shape (instead of clicking the 'Active' label.

    Again, very impressed with the extension. I happen to have a career in trying to make UI more usable, so please know these suggestions come from a place of respect.

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by wudrow View Post
    First of all, love the extension, etc, etc!

    It took me a LONG time to find the answer for why the Druid I was controlling was not able to make the 'Active' work for the wild shape. Finally read through the 9 pages and found a reference there, then found this thread on page 10.

    Some suggestions:
    - Add a note about this "must be the turn of the PC / NPC" to the *first* overview post in this thread. Similarly, add a note that only the host can add beasts to the list of available polymorphs.
    - When it's not the turn of the PC or NPC, and they try to click the 'Active' button, add an error message in the chat window, "While the GM can activate at any time, the players may only activate on their turn".
    - As the host, the graphic of 'PC'->'?'->'NPC'... what is that supposed to mean?
    - When my druid, 'Peaeye' changes to a Brown bear, I wish the CT automatically showed the name "Peaeye - Brown Bear" just to clarify whose turn it is.
    - In Options, consider renaming the section header, 'Shared NPC (GM)' to include the label Polymorphism somewhere. It took me awhile to figure out it's your setting! And full disclosure, I've read your descriptions and still get confused on what the label, 'Fully Own Shared CT NPC' is supposed to represent. When I read the description for v1.5 I got closer to understanding, but likely some rephrasing in that paragraph could help.
    - The header on the character sheet, "USE THIS SHEET. No Poly currently in effect." Consider only showing either, 'Polymorph currently active' or 'Polymorph NOT currently active', and then use a tooltip to explain which sheet to use. At a minimum, flip the order so it says, "No polymorph currently in effect, so use this sheet." and "Polymorph currently in effect, so use the reference sheet of the beast."
    - To deactivate the Wild Shape, consider a similar safety check you do with another of your options where they have to double-click to confirm? And/or, consider when the red 'Active' button is visible, include an 'X' button to cancel the shape (instead of clicking the 'Active' label.

    Again, very impressed with the extension. I happen to have a career in trying to make UI more usable, so please know these suggestions come from a place of respect.
    I admit that stupid "Turn" thing has burned myself in my games when I'm testing things (which I try to do weekly after the FGU updates) and can't figure out why its broken - then realize I did not have the test players turn set (something that normally would not be an issue in my live games as it would be their turn). I did have a chat message end turn - but I actually annoyed myself by the number of times it showed up when I was testing (yeah I'm that dumb) and did not want it as a source of player spam in the chat window (I hate that kind of stuff that scrolls off important info). As far as the notes - I had them all in DMsG - but when I went with Grim Press they convinced me I had way to much information (hence the old page is buried in the FG forum post in the .txt file now). I tend to give way to much information including potential compatibility code replacements. The PC->?->NPC icon - could not figure out how to show the true polymorph turning into inanimate objects (like my chair demo) and while I map it as an NPC - well - just that was the point confusing as it is.

    As far as the ID of the NPC - litmus test of changes I make is if they are what I want in my game. I had one of the first campaigns I ran with this with a gladiatorial arena where the prisoners had to fight a succession of matches against different creatures. There were high level mages as the referees for the empire and each had polymorph. I had the players facing polymorphed creatures which they did not KNOW were polymorphed - until they knocked their HP to 0 at which point POOF - bigger meaner creature suddenly appeared - they were surprised. Also have players turned into furniture (or NPCs) that I DO NOT WANT ANY indication of what they are (this only really works with my combat groups to keep them from seeing those items in combat tracker though). But the gist being - no I don't want people to know the thing is polymorphed by having its name appear giving it away.

    The sheet messages are specific because there is one of the spells where the sheet is partially usable (they are all usable obviously as I don't limit thing like FGU does not limit them because you never know when someone will do something crazy that I don't handle).

    In general if the function takes more than one click I don't like it - I'm very lazy and wrote these to do as little clicking management as I can get away with. I try to make my interfaces as simple and multiple uses for the least real estate possible.

    And with the current question hovering over all DMsG extensions - I'm kind of taking a hiatus on any superficial changes that are not directly related to bugs or the functionality of the extensions.

    So for now if its not a bug fix or a feature that I'd actually want in my game I'm going to hold off on them.

  5. #95
    Based on something I encountered in my own campaign today I'm going to put out a warning on shapechanger NPC trait/PC feature. Shapechanger was treated as the unrestricted shapechange/polymorph spell by me. Most NPC shapechanger's have one sheet that has all their abilities on it and they do not need to use the shapechanger option in this extension. All you need to do is change the token icon and use the appropriate attacks. And if you use the shapechanger option you'd have to essentially use a special sheet you made yourself that had only that forms abilities but same HP and such as the original form (hence why use my shapechanger to do anything for that). Also, if you switch to some NPC (even if you made one specially matching) - if it died it would revert back like the shapechange spell with the HP carried over. This is NOT what an NPC shapechanger does in most cases. However, a shapeshifter PC class does - which is what I used shapechanger feature to do in PC's - homebrew type of thing.

    I think shapechanger trait is pretty much you die when 0 HP you revert back dead without the shapechange spell rules. This caused me confusion with some werewolves I foolishly shapeshifted to NPC wolf form today - which one - was wrong because it was not a matching set of HP etc. as the original form - and two it reverted back with carried over damage when it went to 0 HP. I should have NEVER used the shapechanger option with that type of thing as it had all the options on the sheet.

    So I'm warning others of this NPC shapechanger trait that I tried to make an all purpose unlimited polymorph type of thing for DM discretion usage. Which is also true for use in PC shapechanger feature - which is really to cover shapeshifter homebrew type of things (again giving DM unlimited power to allow what they want them to change into with the 0 HP revert rules in play).

    I'm going to have to think on this for a bit, because trying to cram what I wanted into this one keyword NPC trait/PC feature is even confusing to me.

    I'm not sure what I'll do here but I'll think on it awhile. My gut instinct is to make a shapechanger pass on its stats to whatever NPC it turns into and drops dead when it hits 0HP. Then make a new keyword called shapeshifter for the unlimited polymorph type of power I originally was shooting for.

    But I'll have to think on it and am in no rush to make this change as it will make campaigns have to change NPC's they have created with the unlimited NPC selected for polymorph that respects those rules (the shapechanger trait would need to change to shapeshifter in both NPC and PC uses like that). Which could cause even more confusion - hence - not sure what I'll end up doing.
    Last edited by SilentRuin; December 15th, 2020 at 05:25.

  6. #96
    All right DMsG has been updated with the new version. I've decided what I'm going to do to handle all this stuff while still leaving it super flexible. Nothing has changed except Shapechanger behavior and new Shapeshifter behavior (which was old shapechanger behavior). Will be testing this out over the next day or so but its out there now. As nobody probably used this feature but me I'm not to worried about it. Also the .txt file on page 1 has been updated.

    V1.9 - Shapechanger was my super power anything goes polymorph which pretty much acted like an unlimited Shapechange spell more or less. Which is an NPC trait/ PC feature. Unfortunately in my own game I found that NPC shapechanger's should really never use it as they have all the data in the sheet already. Also it currently switches back when 0 HP following the rules like other polymorph things. Which is dead wrong for an NPC trait one. They are dead dead when they are killed in their changed form and switch back to their dead form. To properly apply shapechanger (if ever used) I've changed it to basically preserve the HP data when you change and if you die switch back to original form but still dead. Ideally the only way it should ever be used is if you make a copy of the shapechanger and just change the token and nothing else. Or have a specially crafted NPC that matches the exact stats/abilities/everything and removing the attacks that don't apply to new form (probably easier just to never use it - but as I will - I'm changing it to this). Now I added it to PC's also - but really that was for a shapeshifter which is now a new supported polymorph type that basically behaves like the old shapechanger one. So if you want changed thing to drop dead you use "Shapechanger" and if you want it to do the normal transfer of exceeded HP like a normal polymorph you now use "Shapeshifter". This gives the most flexibility while fixing things that were not correct.
    Last edited by SilentRuin; December 16th, 2020 at 19:50.

  7. #97
    While working on another extension I realized the map token must be updated after an NPC is shared or the ownership will not be passed into the map if the token is already out there. Fixed.

    V1.10 - Fixed sharing NPC ability to update the map token so the ownership was set properly. The problem was that if you shared the NPC to a player while it was on the map the map would not have the owner updated so that the player could move it. Now it will work whether on the map or not at time of sharing control to player.

  8. #98
    While still working on my new extension I discovered that when polymorphing a shared NPC that the NPCowner data and addholder ownership data was lost in the new record. Fixed.

    V1.11 - Fixed when polymorphing with an NPC (NPCowner set for NPC controlled by player) was not preserving that NPCowner and the addholder ownership of the record. It would be lost after conversion meaning you no longer could move on map or select active button.

  9. #99
    Great extension. (Running V1.11)

    I found that when our druid WildShapes into a beast and pick up an item and put it in the beast's inventory when they revert back to Druid form everything in the beast's inventory is lost and not transferred to their inventory. (Bear was holding a bag of stuff)
    I thought I would mention it here in case you had a way of fixing that in an update.
    I know that not all inventory items would want to be transferred back to the host, like any that are added by default to the NPCs inventory list. New items would be nice not to lose. I don't know if it is possible to tag items as (Do not transfer, by default) so that all new items could come over or something. I just thought I would let you know.

    Thank you for your work.

    Norge

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Norgewalk View Post
    Great extension. (Running V1.11)

    I found that when our druid WildShapes into a beast and pick up an item and put it in the beast's inventory when they revert back to Druid form everything in the beast's inventory is lost and not transferred to their inventory. (Bear was holding a bag of stuff)
    I thought I would mention it here in case you had a way of fixing that in an update.
    I know that not all inventory items would want to be transferred back to the host, like any that are added by default to the NPCs inventory list. New items would be nice not to lose. I don't know if it is possible to tag items as (Do not transfer, by default) so that all new items could come over or something. I just thought I would let you know.

    Thank you for your work.

    Norge
    As NPC's cannot have inventory - without my map parcel extension - I assume you have that.

    You bring up a very weird situation. Some of the polymorphed things will simply drop items on the ground, others will have the items actually transform into the shape itself - the rules vary (see descriptions). I suppose I cannot see them realistically transforming back and magically have everything back in the characters inventory (best would be on the ground as parcel).

    This gets into the realm of "I make up the rules" type of things. I'll have to think on it - but really - I added NPC inventory to give the DM the ability to play all sorts of scenarios. A beast inventory would be in its stomach - so you have to exercise some common sense when allowing them to put anything IN the inventory to start with. I give the code architectural tools to do what you want - I do not provide the common sense on what you SHOULD use them to do. But really that is up to you. Gist is - I don't see a clean way to allow a beast to transfer items when they polymorph. At best I could see them drop the things as a parcel. But really - it may be up to you to regulate this how you want (maybe transfer items before you polymorph manually).

    In the end, this is one of those "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situations which are all over the place in D&D gaming. I tend to stay away from those and leave those decisions to the DM (manual). Could I transfer inventory? Absolutely. Can I simply drop a parcel of any inventory an NPC has when they transform? Also, absolutely. It's just this enters the realm of me making up the rules as I go. For now - unless convinced otherwise - I think I'll leave it as a manual (do what you want before they transform back manually or lose the gear in the "transformation" as it would be incorporated into you (as some polymorph operations do now when changing into the NPC). Deep grey areas here.

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