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  1. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Ibhuk View Post
    This appears related to the fix you made for V1.29
    Using Polymorphism with Wild Shape doesn't seem to be calculating skills and saves correctly based on my understanding. The feature says:

    Per Jeremy Crawford on Twitter (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/...55703530672128) Referring to the proficiency bonus in the stat block since many beasts will have a lower proficiency bonus than the druid would at the level the druid gains the ability to wild shape into the beast.

    My understanding is that the calculation for any physical skill or save starts with the beast's ability score and then gets the druid's or beast's proficiency added to it. Similarly, any mental skill or save starts with the druid's ability scores and then adds either the beast's or druid's proficiency. I made a test druid to show what I'm talking about. (see attachment) Attachment 53868 The druid has 20 in all ability scores and shifts into a Giant Hyena that only has 16 Strength, 14 Dexterity, and 14 Constitution. The physical saves should just use the Giant Hyena's ability bonus, but it is pulling from the druid's ability bonuses. Also the Giant Hyena has proficiency in Perception while the druid doesn't so it should be using the druid's Wisdom bonus and adding the Giant Hyena's proficiency bonus.

    The extension appears to be taking the higher total bonus for saves using whichever form's bonus is higher. It also doesn't seem to be modifying skills based on the baseline ability score. If a form has proficiency in a skill that the other doesn't, it is just taking that form's skill modifier.

    Unless of course my understanding of the RAW is wrong and the extension calculations are following the RAW.
    5E Raw states:

    Your game Statistics are replaced by the Statistics of the beast, but you retain your Alignment, Personality, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw Proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same Proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature's bonus instead of yours.

    Which is what I should be doing. Nowhere does it state that anything is "added".

    Key to me was "in addition to gaining those of the creature". Which makes the last part almost contradictory since it says if the same proficiency - hence I go with the highest one of either.

    Still confused writing (typical for D&D rules) as it could be interpreted as if the proficiency is lower or higher then stick with druids bonus, and only check if exactly the same.

    If I've read it wrong then will need to change but I'll need to understand it better in terms of what is expected.

    Currently comment in the code is as follows for what I'm doing:
    -- retains all skill and saving throw proficiencies or the creatures whichever is greater
    Last edited by SilentRuin; August 5th, 2022 at 21:31.
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  2. #352
    Note the above reply was edited in case you read via mail.
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  3. #353

  4. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by mordkhaan View Post
    I have used this in the past for an inperson game
    https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questi...n-i-wild-shape
    This confuses me more as reading the answers in here it appears that either is valid and it gets into a RAW vs RAI theoretical statement where it claims "good enough" for what I'm currently doing. Really confusing. I'm looking for what should be the "one and only". If that is even possible in the twisted phraseology of WOTC world. The following quote under the green checked answer in particular...

    The DDB staff did touch on this issue in their recent changelog about character sheet updates - see under "Fixed Wildshape calculation issues with skill and saving throw numbers". They've noted that where the creature is proficient and the character is not, there are 2 possible interpretations: "The creature gives proficiency to the character and you take the higher of the two." and "The creatures skill number is the amount you get". They've defaulted to the former for now, pending "further official clarification". –
    V2Blast
    Last edited by SilentRuin; August 5th, 2022 at 22:23.
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  5. #355
    By RAW "Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast...", and proficiency bonus is, itself, a game statistic. Further, "You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies..." does not say that you retain your proficiency bonus. The statement that "If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours" is wholly unhelpful and makes no mechanical impact, because the bonus has already been replaced by the first sentence. It really only serves to add confusion through alluding to two potential and contradicting implications by inverse (both of which being a logical fallacy in this case). However RAW is defined by what is written, not by guess work about what is expressly not written. So the following pseudocode represents RAW:
    Code:
    local nBonus = 0;
    
    if ability is STR, DEX, or CON then
    	nBonus = nBonus + creatureMod;
    else
    	nBonus = nBonus + druidMod;
    end
    
    if creature or druid is proficient then
    	nBonus = nBonus + creatureProficiency;
    end
    My Forge creations: https://forge.fantasygrounds.com/crafter/9/view-profile
    My GitHub: https://github.com/MeAndUnique
    Buy me a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/meandunique
    Discord: MeAndUnique#6805

  6. #356
    V1.40 - Fix - saving throws and skills in polymorphed sheet now reflect the rules for wild shape per RAW.

    This was a nightmare as none of the suggestions above or in the article match what actually has to be done to conform to FGU and the article for RAW as written. I have implemented this so it matches the results (as best can be done per RAW wordings) per https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questi...n-i-wild-shape and the green checked article. The differences are in that FGU provides a proficiency multiplier of 0.5, 1, and 2 which I have taken into account and that the skills and saving throws are calculated following the same rules including only using the original bonus if larger and the proficiencies are the same. You can look at the raw code if you want but this is the basics of what it does now per the article above:

    - You get new STR, DEX, and CON scores, so when shapeshifted you use the beast's scores for those, and the Druid's scores for INT, WIS and CHA.

    - Because you are still a Druid and keep your proficiency bonus (including the multiplier 0.5, 1, or 2 pers abilities tab in FGU), you now add the Druid's PB to any abilities that you or the beast were proficient with. This does not include the beast's natural attacks.

    - Finally, you check abilities that both Druid and beast were proficient in. If the beast had a higher bonus (and is the same proficiency) than your newly recalculated one, you use that bonus instead.

    Look at the examples in that article and that is what is done - different only in that saving throws also apply these rules (their pictures do not seem to do that in all cases) and the proficiency multiplier in the abilities tab is applied to calculate true proficiency.

    This whole wild shape thing is completely confused and it seem nobody really has a perfect idea of how it should be done - but I've used the article above as my point of reference and then applied anything it did not cover as mentioned above to handle the rest. Previously this just did the best of both sheets and applied those for skill/saving throws - now it does as the RAW states. Since it will always apply the same rules in all polymorphs this is "good enough" and guaranteed to be consistent when using this extension. And that is what really counts, regardless of how confused this whole WOTC rule is.
    Last edited by SilentRuin; August 7th, 2022 at 22:11.
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  7. #357
    Thank you for all your work and research into this. I know WotC has left it dumbly vague.

  8. #358
    Reporting an issue between Polymorphism and Temporal Fixation.

    When PCs Shapeshift it strips the TF code, such as SHARETURN, from the NPC it was attached to on the combat tracker.

  9. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by BushViper View Post
    Reporting an issue between Polymorphism and Temporal Fixation.

    When PCs Shapeshift it strips the TF code, such as SHARETURN, from the NPC it was attached to on the combat tracker.
    No idea what that is. But if its an effect then the rules as stated in .txt file are applied as to whether it is ON in the NPC - otherwise it will be OFF. So you would need to turn it back on. If something else, then yes it conflicts.
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  10. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by SilentRuin View Post
    No idea what that is. But if its an effect then the rules as stated in .txt file are applied as to whether it is ON in the NPC - otherwise it will be OFF. So you would need to turn it back on. If something else, then yes it conflicts.
    Yeah, guy. I know it's a conflict otherwise I wouldn't have posted my comment and I clearly stated what it is. Temporal Fixation is an extension written by MeAndUnique, one of the creators under the Grim Press umbrella that you share.

    Also, there's nothing to "turn back on." When the PC Shapeshifts, Polymorphism literally removes the entire effect line from the combat tracker for that NPC/companion.

    I can't put into words how much I absolutely despise interacting with you. You constantly complain about having to find issues with your extensions yourself, but when people bring legitimate problems to you, you either pout, get angry, condescend, or shrug your shoulders.

    Fix it or don't. I've done my duty in reporting it.
    Last edited by BushViper; August 14th, 2022 at 05:23.

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