Connection Issues

[Skofield]

We finally played again on Dec 19. There were no disconnects! This is after updating FG Unity to V4.0.5 2020-12-17.

[Laerun]

Wireless Data Streams.png


Figure 1. Graphic showing an illustration of the potential issues one might face using a wireless connection. Wireless CAN be used, it just needs to be understood, have 'decent' bandwidth, and a have a strong signal with less interference.
Internet goes down due to a local outage or storm, or you have a bad or burned up cable splitter that splits your internet off to another cable line... bad for everything. This graphic does not take hardware failure in consideration. There are six users, including the host trying to use and share the total bandwidth amount. It can get rather crowded, creating lag, and other issues. The solid circles are constant and stable data streams, the concentric circles are intermittent data flow from wireless devices. Red and orange iare bad, blue is the optimal best. Green & yellow are fair... Orange and below you are going to lag, disconnect, or freeze potentially. You will know it once you experience it.

Things to consider:
1. Who is using your internet while you are trying to play or run a game?
2. Hardware failure, it happens. Cable splitters are a common issue, they burn up eventually.
3. Please do not use a phone, or tablet if possible, these are not recommended devices and still do not provide enough signal, even with 5G wireless.
4. Consider your computing device, is it too old or adequate, and if not, what are the actual needs of your current group?
5. Half, if not more connectivity issues are user error (me too) unfortunately, please use the FGU system reporting logs and report to customer service or here if you are struggling.
6. Make sure EVERYONE in your group is up to date and using the SAME platform, you'd be surprised how often this comes up.
7. Sometimes having everyone take a short break, disconnecting, and rebooting FG will help, but it is a bandaid at times. Find where the weakest point is before your next session.
8. Nothing is perfect, there are so many ways that connectivity and bandwidth issues can effect each user. Most of the errors occur outside or before FG is even launched.

https://youtu.be/45NWboX58rg Some useless chatter regarding wireless vs ethernet, LOL

[Sulimo]

Great info Laerun.

It brought to mind another thing to consider for Wi-Fi; the Channel used for wireless can have an effect. Especially if you are in an apartment (or houses close together) with other people with their own Wi-Fi setup. You may talk about this in your video.

The 2.4GHz channels overlap, so only 1/6/11 are typically usable (in the US at least).

2.4GHz is typically more crowded as well (Microwave ovens, wireless phones (non-DECT), Bluetooth, etc.). 5GHz is better, however, it typically has worse penetration through walls.

5GHz has more channels, and they typically do not overlap. However, there could be issues with Channel Bonding (using more that one channel at a time) if one of the bonded channels is in use by a neighbor.

Other devices on the same Wi-Fi network can also effect things. Your Wi-Fi connection is only as fast as the slowest device. So if you can, switch your slower devices (older ones) to a different Wi-Fi network. Some routers let you setup both 2.4GHz and 5GHz as separate networks (you might see this as two different networks when you connect to Wi-Fi; <network name> and <network name>_5G), if so, put your slower devices on the 2.4GHz network.

Here is a good write-up on understanding Wi-F, and how to alleviate some issues (not everything can be fixed though).

[LordEntrails]

Great info Laerun.

It brought to mind another thing to consider for Wi-Fi; the Channel used for wireless can have an effect. Especially if you are in an apartment (or houses close together) with other people with their own Wi-Fi setup. You may talk about this in your video.

The 2.4GHz channels overlap, so only 1/6/11 are typically usable (in the US at least).

2.4GHz is typically more crowded as well (Microwave ovens, wireless phones (non-DECT), Bluetooth, etc.). 5GHz is better, however, it typically has worse penetration through walls.

5GHz has more channels, and they typically do not overlap. However, there could be issues with Channel Bonding (using more that one channel at a time) if one of the bonded channels is in use by a neighbor.

Other devices on the same Wi-Fi network can also effect things. Your Wi-Fi connection is only as fast as the slowest device. So if you can, switch your slower devices (older ones) to a different Wi-Fi network. Some routers let you setup both 2.4GHz and 5GHz as separate networks (you might see this as two different networks when you connect to Wi-Fi; <network name> and <network name>_5G), if so, put your slower devices on the 2.4GHz network.

Here is a good write-up on understanding Wi-F, and how to alleviate some issues (not everything can be fixed though).

To add, for those using wireless, get one of the numerous free wifi analyzer apps. These apps will tell you which channels are best for you to use. Often you will find that your channel is also being used by all your neighbors too, and you can switch to a channel between what everyone else is using. Free, simpel to use and understand, and very useful!

[TheBluePsion]

This is all super helpful...and I might look into that channel switching idea, but I think many people don't initially consider Wi-Fi bandwidth/networking to be the cause of problems like disconnects in FGU because they're accustomed to their internet working great: having multiple devices playing online games, streaming video/music, etc., all over Wi-Fi, all at the same time, with little to no problems. They then try to join a game on FGU using the same network setup, and even when the network isn't busy, they have connectivity problems.

I experienced this myself, and have helped two other DM friends of mine figure this out. They were both also surprised that Wi-Fi was the problem. On my old router, I was accustomed to playing FF14 with my partner (on two PS4's in different rooms, one on Wi-Fi, the other on ethernet), streaming music to Bluetooth speakers, streaming YouTube, and running voice chat on two discord instances (cell phones connected to Wi-Fi), all at the same time, no problems. Yet when I tried joining an FGU game using a windows laptop over Wi-Fi, I had many intermittent disconnect issues. I upgraded my router and internet service plan and now things are running great. This new router provided a much stronger and more reliable Wi-Fi signal.

I'm pretty savvy with networking, and I was definitely scratching my head wondering why my network was able to handle multiple console MMOs/media/coms, but was having trouble with FGU over Wi-Fi. For this reason, I don't think many people think to list their network/PC setup when they report a disconnect problem, because it's just not immediately intuitive that Wi-Fi is the problem. All they see is them getting booted from the game. I wouldn't expect the average user to know how to read an error log, let alone know that a "fatal socket exception" might have something to do with networking.

From all this I've surmised that for whatever reason, FGU requires stronger wireless connectivity/reliability than even a PS4 running an MMO. I never would have guessed this and would understand that this may confuse/frustrate most customers.

[Laerun]

This is all super helpful...and I might look into that channel switching idea, but I think many people don't initially consider Wi-Fi bandwidth/networking to be the cause of problems like disconnects in FGU because they're accustomed to their internet working great: having multiple devices playing online games, streaming video/music, etc., all over Wi-Fi, all at the same time, with little to no problems. They then try to join a game on FGU using the same network setup, and even when the network isn't busy, they have connectivity problems.

I experienced this myself, and have helped two other DM friends of mine figure this out. They were both also surprised that Wi-Fi was the problem. On my old router, I was accustomed to playing FF14 with my partner (on two PS4's in different rooms, one on Wi-Fi, the other on ethernet), streaming music to Bluetooth speakers, streaming YouTube, and running voice chat on two discord instances (cell phones connected to Wi-Fi), all at the same time, no problems. Yet when I tried joining an FGU game using a windows laptop over Wi-Fi, I had many intermittent disconnect issues. I upgraded my router and internet service plan and now things are running great. This new router provided a much stronger and more reliable Wi-Fi signal.

I'm pretty savvy with networking, and I was definitely scratching my head wondering why my network was able to handle multiple console MMOs/media/coms, but was having trouble with FGU over Wi-Fi. For this reason, I don't think many people think to list their network/PC setup when they report a disconnect problem, because it's just not immediately intuitive that Wi-Fi is the problem. All they see is them getting booted from the game. I wouldn't expect the average user to know how to read an error log, let alone know that a "fatal socket exception" might have something to do with networking.

From all this I've surmised that for whatever reason, FGU requires stronger wireless connectivity/reliability than even a PS4 running an MMO. I never would have guessed this and would understand that this may confuse/frustrate most customers.

Hopefully as we all chug along, we develop more awareness, and we learn better computing practices, and that we understand what to look for.

Laerun

[Trenloe]

From all this I've surmised that for whatever reason, FGU requires stronger wireless connectivity/reliability than even a PS4 running an MMO. I never would have guessed this and would understand that this may confuse/frustrate most customers.

MMOs and the other apps you mentioned (streaming, etc.) are designed to ignore and move on if data packets aren’t received. Ever seen a minor jump in movement/graphics in an MMO? Possibly due to some missed/lost packets.

FG does not work this way - it needs to receive all data in a timely fashion, it can’t ignore the fact that some data didn’t arrive within an expected time period. The networking libraries used in FG will request retransmission of missing data etc., but if it gets to a point that it can’t recover then a player disconnect will result.

[Lo Zeno]

Hello,

I run a game with several players over the internet, and one player (my wife) in my same LAN. I am the DM. Both my computer and my wife's are connected to our router via ethernet cables.
Every time we run a session, without fail, she gets disconnected once in the middle of the game. It happens ONLY to her, and to no other player - we tried with different rulesets, with different campaigns, it keeps happening only to her.
Does the fact that the DM and a Player of a Cloud game use the same LAN affect port forwarding in such a way as to cause interference to the connection?

I've attached her logs

[TheBluePsion]

FG does not work this way - it needs to receive all data in a timely fashion, it can’t ignore the fact that some data didn’t arrive within an expected time period.

Any chance this is on a list of things to get fixed?



And Lo Zeno, I also run DM and a player on my same LAN. I DM from an ethernet connected PC, and player is on a Wi-Fi connected laptop. We were having big issues, but they 99% resolved after I got a new router.

[LordEntrails]

Any chance this is on a list of things to get fixed?

It's not broken. You want a a player to make rolls that are not sent to the host until after another player has already attacked and killed an NPC? Or you want a NPC to attack a PC but the damage is shown to the player until after that player has already taken their turn, and since they didn't see the damage instead of healing themselves when they are at 1 hit point, they charge into melee?

RPGs require everyone to be working from the same information (data) at the same time. MMOs don't, they allow players to shoot at enemies who have already been killed, or to shoot enemies after they themselves have already been killed.