PFRPG Spellbook

[Kelrugem]

It was carefully hidden in a facebook post on the Fantasy Ground page written by one of the dev, he said (1st april), but it might be... and april's fool... xD

Looks like we were both correct: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...274#post591274

I call this: Schrödinger's April's Fool!

[Khoredran]

We can now reprogram a lot of Spells to add their effect limit!

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...189#post596189

Hurray!

Thank you so much Kelrugem ^^

[Svandal]

Size changes are a litte weird. Ok, here is my explanation:
ATK: x size: This adds or subtracts both attack rolls and CMB rolls.
AC: x size: This only adds or subtracts on AC NOT CMD
AC: x. This adds or subtracts on AC AND CMD.

In this spellbook enlarge person has the following effect: (This gives +0 on CMB and +0 CMD which is wrong)
Enlarge Person;STR:2 size;DEX:-2 size;AC:-1 size;ATK:-1 size
Enlarge person should have this effect: (This gives +2 CMB and +1 CMD which is right)
Enlarge Person;STR:2 size;DEX:-2 size;AC:-1 size;ATK:-1 size;CMB:+2 size;CMD:+1 size

Righteous Might have this effect: (which gives +2 CMB and +3 CMD, which is wrong, and to high touch AC)
Righteous Might;STR:4 size;CON:4 size;DEX:-2 size;AC:2;DR:5 evil
If should have this effect: (which gives +3 CMB and +2 CMD which is right)
Righteous Might;STR:4 size;CON:4 size;DEX:-2 size;AC:2 natural;DR:5 evil;ATK:-1 size;AC:+1 size;CMB:+2 size;CMD:+1 size

Legendary proportions are a mess AC wise. Ok, so this gives us a +6 size bonus to natural armor. Pathfinder rules +6 size bonus to natural armor stacks with natural armor like barkskin. Fantasy grounds does like that. +6 size does not work, that applies to touch and CMD. natural is the closest, but please avoid that because there are so many natural armor bonus spells there that it stacks with, but not if you call it natural in FG. My best suggestion is to say that it is an armor bonus. Then it does not apply to touch and CMD, and we have almost no problem with stacking issues with other spells. Mage armor is one of the few I can think of now that gives armor bonus. Oh, and magic vestement might be a problem. No good solutions there.

Legendary proprotions have this effect: (which gives +3 CMB and +3 CMD which is wrong, and AC touch is +6, it should be -1, difference of 7)
Legendary Proportions;STR:6 size;CON:4 size;AC:6 size;DR:10 adamantine
It should have this effect (which gives +4 CMB and +4 CMD)
Legendary Proportions;STR:6 size;CON:4 size;AC:6 armor;DR:10 adamantine;ATK:-1 size;AC:-1 size;CMB:+2 size;CMD:+1 size

And since I talked about magic vestement, that is wrong because fantasy grounds treats this a little weird:
The spell is coded like this (which gives +1 AC to touch and +1 to CMD, which is wrong.
Magic Vestment;AC:1 enhancement
It could could change it to two effects, like this to only add to non touch attacks (and Q is valid now and quarter in "vanilla" fantasy grounds). You should have two lines since it can be applied to both shield and armor. Stacking issues should not be an issue for most of the cases I think.
Magic Vestment;AC:[QCL] armor
Magic Vestment;AC:[QCL] shield

[Thamyor]

Armor and shield AC effects won't stack with the armor and shield on the characer sheet, so there is a huge problem there.
If we could target only the Touch AC or the Flat-Footed AC with an effect it would be easier with something like this:
Legendary Proportions;STR:6 size;CON:4 size;AC:5;DR:10 adamantine;ATK:-1 size;TOUCHAC:-5 size;CMB:+2 size;CMD:+1 size

[Kelrugem]

I just read the stuff about the touch AC and the size bonus to natural armor: In that case you may simply want to use the Misc field in the character sheet just insert the +6 into the misc fields of Armor Class and FF AC, and remove it again once the buff expires Still a workaround, but better than adjusting the modifiers in case of touch attacks each time

[Svandal]

Armor and shield AC effects won't stack with the armor and shield on the characer sheet, so there is a huge problem there.
If we could target only the Touch AC or the Flat-Footed AC with an effect it would be easier with something like this:
Legendary Proportions;STR:6 size;CON:4 size;AC:5;DR:10 adamantine;ATK:-1 size;TOUCHAC:-5 size;CMB:+2 size;CMD:+1 size

I actually did not know that. Did they change that at any time, because I am 90% sure that effects did not take into consideration the values but in the armor, shield, deflection, etc boxes before.
I am happy it is included.
Then it might be best to still have it as a size bonus to armor. Personally I would rather have the higher touch and CMD bug than stacking issues with natural armor.

[Kelrugem]

I actually did not know that. Did they change that at any time, because I am 90% sure that effects did not take into consideration the values but in the armor, shield, deflection, etc boxes before.
I am happy it is included.
Then it might be best to still have it as a size bonus to armor. Personally I would rather have the higher touch and CMD bug than stacking issues with natural armor.

FG normally only checks the stacking between effects; but AC is an exception, for AC FG also looks into you character sheet (this is also why AC has all those bonus fields, their automation is intertwined with effect stuff )

[dllewell]

Svandal, i have reviewed the spells you identified. As was already discussed by you, Thamyor, and Kelrugem we run into additional complexities regarding how AC bonuses stack.

I did some more testing and confirmed the following

• 'armor' and 'natural' bonuses affect Regular AC but not Touch AC or CMD
• 'size' bonuses affect Regular and Touch AC but not CMD
• 'enhancement', 'deflection', 'dodge' and untyped bonuses affect Regular AC, Touch AC and CMD

Additionally, 'natural' has it own set of issues in the fact that FG only recognizes 1 bonus type called 'natural' but Pathfinder has multiple ways to affect natural AC

• base natural armor
• enhancement to natural armor -- Amulet of Natural Armor, Barkskin
• size modifier to natural armor -- Legendary Proportions
• There may also be others that I am not aware of.

Based on that information I made the following changes
Enlarge Person and Righteous Might were changed as you identified. I also made the same type of changes to Reduce Person and Steal Size

Legendary Proportions
I added the size effects (ATK:-1 size;AC:-1 size;CMB:+2 size;CMD:+1 size) but left the AC as a 'size' modifier.
I went back and forth on changing the AC to a 'natural' modifier but ultimately decided to stay with the 'size' modifier. That does mean that the Touch AC is still wrong but it makes it easier for stacking with other 'natural' modifiers.

On a side note - Barkskin has this same issue. The spell identifies it as an 'enhancement bonus to the creature's existing natural armor bonus'. In the spell book I have the effect set to be a 'natural' modifier not an 'enhancement' modifier. This means that it correctly affects Regular AC but not Touch AC or CMD, but does not stack correctly if the creature already has a natural armor bonus.

Any other spells/effects that modify natural armor suffer from this same problem.

Magic Vestment runs into the same stacking issue as we have been discussing. If you set the bonus to AC:[QCL] armor then it will not stack correctly with existing armor (or other spells that have different types of armor bonuses). Same with Shield. By setting it to 'enhancement' it assures that the bonus stacks correctly but, on the bad side, incorrectly applies that bonus to the Touch AC and CMD. The opposite problem of what we have with the Barkskin spell. Based on the fact that their are many more types of 'armor' bonus I'm going to leave as an 'enhancement' bonus to avoid the 'armor' stacking issue.
Side Note - The latest version (6.1) already has the QCL effect applied to Magic Vestment.

Ultimately, unless subtypes are added for the 'armor', 'shield' and 'natural' bonus types then we are going to have these issues. And, in my opinion, the effort needed to add these changes is probably not worth it to fix the very few instances of problems it would fix.
By subtypes I mean -- 'armor enhancement', 'armor size', 'natural enhancement', 'natural size' - where the first part is the bonus type which determines the rules for what is affected and the second part is the subtype that is used for uniqueness when determining whether the bonus stacks.

These changes have been made in my local working copy and will be available with the next version release.

[bmos]

Ultimately, unless subtypes are added for the 'armor', 'shield' and 'natural' bonus types then we are going to have these issues. And, in my opinion, the effort needed to add these changes is probably not worth it to fix the very few instances of problems it would fix.
By subtypes I mean -- 'armor enhancement', 'armor size', 'natural enhancement', 'natural size' - where the first part is the bonus type which determines the rules for what is affected and the second part is the subtype that is used for uniqueness when determining whether the bonus stacks.

Don't worry, I got your back :P

[dllewell]

Don't worry, I got your back :P

I love this extension, but you are making it very hard for me to stick with my 'no extensions needed' policy for the Spellbook

I'm starting to work on the version that requires Kel's extensions. I will absolutely add this extension to that version also.

Thanks bmos.