PFRPG Spellbook

[DCrumb]

If the Sorcerer/Wizard is listed that way, then Oracle should be listed with Cleric (Cleric/Oracle), as Oracle is to Clerics as Sorcerer is to Wizards.

[darrenan]

Yeah, the list has both Sorcerer and Wizard, even though they share spell lists. Should either add Oracle, or change them to Sorcerer/Wizard and Cleric/Oracle.

[DCrumb]

Sorcerer and Wizard are almost the same lists. Wizard has at least one extra spell.

[dllewell]

In the main module listing, the Oracle seems missing.
Attachment 43415

Originally I did not put an Oracle list because it is exactly the same as the Cleric list. At least, that's how I remembered it being. But I have done further research and there are indeed a few differences between the lists now. So, I will add a separate Oracle list. Thank you for pointing this out.

In regards to the Wizard and Sorcerer lists I had made two separate lists because their are some (minor) differences between them.

[dllewell]

Ok. Splitting the dice like I proposed makes the outcome have a larger variance to creatures that are immune to fire or have high resistance. Damage average will be the same.
What this means is. If we have a caster level 8 mage casts hellfire ray vs fire immune creature. There will be a significantly more chance to do 24 damage (4d6 unholy is 24 max) and a significantly higher chance to do 4 damage to creature than if half was unholy. If a normal hellfire ray where to do 4 damage you would have to roll 8 1s on 8d6 normally, but with my method you would only have to roll 4 1s on 4d6.
Like I said average is the same.

Since we have unholy damage on odd caster levels you would do an average of 3.5/2=1.75 more damage on odd caster levels vs fire immune creatures.
Vs fire resistance it would only matter if the fire resistance is high enough. If for example a caster level 11 would do almost the same average vs fire resistance 10 creature with my method as if he had done half fire half unholy. 5d6 has a really low chance of rolling less than 10 fire damage.

Note that my method does less damage on odd caster level vs vulnerable to fire creatures.

So I am not sure if it is a slight boost or slight nerf to have unholy damage on odd caster levels since you will not cast fire spells vs fire immune or high fire resistance creatures

Edit: 1.75 damage more, not 3.5. fixed in text on damage vs fire immune on odd caster levels

I'm still looking at this ... along with some other options. I'm toying with a split 1d3 (avg 2) and 1d4-1 (0-3 = avg 1.5) approach for 1d6 split damage. The average works out correctly but it still has the issue with energy resistance skewing the results. But I'm hoping that is to a lesser degree. That won't work, of course, for d8 damage.

Even once we "fix" this it's still not correct. It's supposed to be half damage. 1d6 of energy damage A and 1d6 of energy damage B is not the same as 2d6 of damage and then split evenly between A and B. As darrenan said, without the dmg/2 option this will never be completely right.

[BearSpiritGuide]

Hey folks, sorry for the newbie question: where can I get this module? Is there a place with the link?

[Svandal]

I'm still looking at this ... along with some other options. I'm toying with a split 1d3 (avg 2) and 1d4-1 (0-3 = avg 1.5) approach for 1d6 split damage. The average works out correctly but it still has the issue with energy resistance skewing the results. But I'm hoping that is to a lesser degree. That won't work, of course, for d8 damage.

Even once we "fix" this it's still not correct. It's supposed to be half damage. 1d6 of energy damage A and 1d6 of energy damage B is not the same as 2d6 of damage and then split evenly between A and B. As darrenan said, without the dmg/2 option this will never be completely right.

The problem of rolling other dice and substracting is that you get the same average, but different variance. Let me show you with this graph
image001.png

It shows dice rolls 10 000 times for each scenario.
Caster level 5 hellay vs fire resistance 5 monster.
I think what you meant was taking 1d4-1 unholy +1d3 fire(or the other way around) per caster level as a fix?
I could not attach an excel file it seems. If you want I can send it to you to double check, but I warn you it was my forst time trying this in excel, so it looks horrible, it is a really backward way of doing it, and I would do it much better if I made it again. 

Edit: the axis are
Horizontal axis: damage dealt to monster
Vertical axis: number of times this number was reached in 10 100 outcomes

[dllewell]

Hey folks, sorry for the newbie question: where can I get this module? Is there a place with the link?

The link to the latest version is in the OP.

[bmos]

Hey folks, sorry for the newbie question: where can I get this module? Is there a place with the link?

If you don't see it, scroll down to the bottom of the page and switch to Full Site Mode. You might be on mobile view.

[dllewell]

The problem of rolling other dice and substracting is that you get the same average, but different variance. Let me show you with this graph
image001.png

It shows dice rolls 10 000 times for each scenario.
Caster level 5 hellay vs fire resistance 5 monster.
I think what you meant was taking 1d4-1 unholy +1d3 fire(or the other way around) per caster level as a fix?
I could not attach an excel file it seems. If you want I can send it to you to double check, but I warn you it was my forst time trying this in excel, so it looks horrible, it is a really backward way of doing it, and I would do it much better if I made it again. 

Edit: the axis are
Horizontal axis: damage dealt to monster
Vertical axis: number of times this number was reached in 10 100 outcomes

I took your numbers and ran some of my own and agree with your assessment. As we already ascertained there is no perfect answer with the options we currently have.

But ultimately your 1d6 unholy at odd levels then 1d6 at even levels is, I believe, the closest we can come.

At odd levels those with fire resistance will take 1.75 points more damage than they should. At 1st level this is a 100% increase in damage they should take but that percentage of extra damage drops quickly (33% at 3rd, 20% at 5th, 14% at 7th, 11% at 9th).

I'll start modifying the spells that split damage to use your formula.