Token Visibility Struggles with LOS

[ratzofftoya]

Hi folks!

First, let me just say, I'm really enjoying LOS in Fantasy Grounds. Thanks for adding it, and I look forward to dynamic light sources some time in the future.

So, on to my issue.

I make an encounter. I have a map with one encounter, or a bunch of encounters--doesn't matter for the purpose of this issue. I place my tokens, close the encounter, remove from combat tracker, all good. The players start approaching an area. I load up the encounter in the combat tracker. The tokens pop up on the map, exactly where I placed them. Cool! But when a player turns a corner, they don't see the goblin unless I've set that specific goblin to mask-sensitive visibility, AFTER re-placing them by adding the encounter to the CT. Then, once I notice that the player sees them, I also have to make them visible in the CT in order for combat to work. So I guess my question/request is:

1.)I'd like to have all placed creatures default to mask-sensitive visibility, at least if LOS is enabled. LOS is basically entirely there for hiding and revealing creatures, so not having that be the default severely diminishes the value of the feature for me.
2.)If that can't be the default, at least let me change all placed creatures at once instead of having to do them individually.
3.)Remember my choice for a particular token even after the encounter has been removed from the map. If it can remember where I placed the token during session prep (which is great!) it should remember whether or not it should be mask-sensitive. That doesn't seem to be the case. As a result, once I place the encounter in live play, I have to pause in order to individually set mask sensitivity on all creatures again.
4.)If I set the token to mask-sensitive visibility (or it defaults to that), it'd be great if the CT respected that setting. It's a bit awkward for the player to be able to see and even target the creature, but then not able to actually make rolls against it.

Thanks for listening!

[pindercarl]

Setting the visibility of the tokens with LOS can be a little confusing at first. Setting the visibility through the radial menu is a "one-shot" setting that does not persist with the map if it is closed and re-opened. For most uses, set the visibility with the combat tracker using the eye icon in the left column. When LOS is enabled, a token marked visible in the combat tracker is mask-sensitive. You can set this on individual tokens, or set all of them using the eye icon in the column header. Setting the visibility this way will be saved with the map. Hope that helps.

[ratzofftoya]

Setting the visibility of the tokens with LOS can be a little confusing at first. Setting the visibility through the radial menu is a "one-shot" setting that does not persist with the map if it is closed and re-opened. For most uses, set the visibility with the combat tracker using the eye icon in the left column. When LOS is enabled, a token marked visible in the combat tracker is mask-sensitive. You can set this on individual tokens, or set all of them using the eye icon in the column header. Setting the visibility this way will be saved with the map. Hope that helps.

But therein lies the problem. If I set them as visible in the combat tracker, then they players know that the creatures are there before they can even see them. What's more, if the map is large and has multiple encounters in it, I have a bunch of people in the combat tracker that shouldn't be part of the instant battle.

[pindercarl]

But therein lies the problem. If I set them as visible in the combat tracker, then they players know that the creatures are there before they can even see them. What's more, if the map is large and has multiple encounters in it, I have a bunch of people in the combat tracker that shouldn't be part of the instant battle.

Thanks. I understand your issue now. The combat tracker is handled at the ruleset level, whereas I work below that at the systems level. I'll followup with John and see if there some API support that is missing from the LOS system.

[Neovirtus]

Ninja'd, nevermind!

[ratzofftoya]

Thanks. I understand your issue now. The combat tracker is handled at the ruleset level, whereas I work below that at the systems level. I'll followup with John and see if there some API support that is missing from the LOS system.

Lovely! Thanks!

[Zacchaeus]

You shouldn't be putting a load of encounters all at once. You should only place the encounter the PCs are actually involved in at that time. So if the PCs are exploring a castle with 10 encounters in it and they are in room one, then only the encounter (if there is one) for room one should be placed. If the players can see all of room one then place the encounter once the PCs enter and then reveal all of them on the CT. If one of the goblins moves out of the room and outside the LoS then it will become invisible on the map but still visible on the CT (Since the players know there's one about). If, when they enter the room, one or more of the Goblins are not immediately visible then reveal only the ones that are via the Combat Tracker.

Visibility is always handled via the Combat Tracker rather than the map.

[ratzofftoya]

Visibility is always handled via the Combat Tracker rather than the map.

I understand that this is a true statement about the software functionality in its current state. What I’m saying is, I think that’s a bug, not a feature. We have a wonderful line of sight tool. A player enters a room with a corner. They move their token such that the area beyond that corner becomes visible. IMO, an ideal state, or at least a permissible state, would be for that action, if it reveals an enemy previously obscured by that corner, to be then visible to the player on the map and, consequently, on the combat tracker. Otherwise, we are in one of three situations, none of which are ideal in my opinion:

1.)I as the DM have to click on the player token, review their LOS, and then “pop in” a token.
2.)Or, if I’ve set the token to mask sensitive visibility, I have to review the player’s LOS (or hear their surprised reaction) to determine that they’ve seen something. There no way for me to know otherwise.
3.)Or, to avoid either of the above, I would have to first make the enemy visible on the combat tracker, thereby spoiling the surprise that something lurks in the room.

So I perceive this to be a limitation. The cool thing about LOS is that it allows for scenarios in which there is mystery and suspense about what’s just around the corner. That’s the best part of this great new feature that the team worked so hard on! I want to be able to take advantage of that feeling.

[kevininrussia]

Hey Ratzo,

I think its obvious what you are describing is how LOS should work. PC walks around the corner, LOS shows the hidden Token and that triggers the visibility on the Combat Tracker for that token. But it doesn't do that and no feature milestones of the developers are shared with us. Thus I am stuck with your option 1; reviewing everybody's LOS then searching on the Combat Tracker for the correct NPC name to turn on while telling the players to "hold on a sec..." Not fun for the DM.

[LordEntrails]

Also be aware, if map location/LOS determined NPC visibility on the CT, then what's visible on the CT would be different for every PC. And NPCs that were once seen by a PC could disappear from the CT. Not that this can't be solved, but it is a very complex issue technically and more importantly from a use/play expectation.