Rolemaster FRP Extension 2.1

[Griffonbait]

I am currently only focused on the character creation process.


One ERROR: STATS window shows DP Total with erroneous value. It should be Temps of (Ag + Co + Me + Re + SD) / 5. Clearly, the STATS dialog is not being sent the Total DPs from the Stat Generation dialog and/or is using an incorrect formula. See image.

STATS.png

This is likely an issue with the RMC rule system or FGU as the problem is removed on window reload.


ERROR: Skill Development window

The DPs displayed in Skill Development are incorrect, even though they are in integer format. The value in Avail field should be a FLOOR() value - the largest interger not greater than the decimal value.

FRP Ext - DP Total - Error.png


Love the Grouping option for the Skill Development window!!!

More to come...

Cheers.

[Griffonbait]

Thank you for all your efforts getting this fixed!


Current Issues:

Character Sheet Skills Tab

Categories are missing Profession Bonus field

Skills are missing Category Bonus field



Primary Skill Table (accessed from the Skill Development dialog)

Has 20 profs list at table top.

Missing prof: Alchemist (Al)

Additional, unknown prof: Pr (Priest?) This is on the far right and is not listed in the Professions window.



Secondary Skill Table (accessed from the Skill Development dialog)

Table is not scrollable - skill listing stops at Circle Lore

Has 19 out of the 20 profs list at table top - missing 1, but there are 2 incorrect profs, see below. So there are 3 missing.

Has only 14 columns of data for the 19 profs - missing 6 to make 20 sets of data.


Missing prof: Dabbler (Db)

Missing prof: Magent (Mg) - or is that Magician?

Missing prof: Paladin (Pl)


Additional, unknown prof: Se

Additional, unknown prof: As


Both Skill tables could be enlarged now that screen real estate is not a premium. The Primary Skill Table is only half, the width of my 1920 pixels, while the Secondary Skill Table is about a third. Enlarging font size would make it more readable.


Lastly
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how to add weapon skills to the Weapon categories. Some explanation on how this works would be good, thanks.


Cheers!

[Griffonbait]

From your original post:

Category Bonus automatically calculated and added to the Stds (I am very proud of this addition)

What do you mean by "Stds"?

Cheers.

[Ardem]

ERROR: STATS window
I could not get it to error as you have, please give me the exact process you did to create the error.

ERROR: Skill Development window
Where in the FRP rules say it should be FLoor, this is the text taken from Page 22
DPs = (Ag + Co + Me + Re + SD) ÷ 5

The only area that I know it should be floor is in rank progression? If you can give me a solid rule for it happy to change it.
----
Categories are missing Profession Bonus field

I tend to use "Spec" field for the Profession bonus, until Dakadin and give all the text fields a variable name, there are some fields I cannot change. There is also not enough room another field there. So once all the text names have a variable name I can then change Spec to be Prof.

Skills are missing Category Bonus field
No it is there it is called Level in Skill Dev based on a similar issue above and CT Bn in the skill window and is a non editable field.

Missing prof: Alchemist (Al)

I not sure how that ducked back in will have to remove that must me in one of the modules.
At the moment only FRP Core and Character Law Professions have been added Alchemist is not apart of these. There is literally a dozen Professions not added, the work to currently add a profession is super hard as I would have to add the profession skill number to every skill included there is 200 odd skills. I have talked to dakadin about this and a newer version might be able to add professions easier. At the moment you will have to do it all manually in adding a profession.

Additional, unknown prof: Pr (Priest?) This is on the far right and is not listed in the Professions window.
You are correct this is priest, we had a priest in my game and I only half added it at the moment. Some of the additional stuff I add is purely for the fact when i started the FRP extension is because I play it, its not because i am getting paid by anyone or trying to complete a complete ruleset for ruleset stakes. It comes out of the fact I add things when my current campaign requires things, so I made FRP due to the need of a hobby then anything that why your might see sometimes some unfinished work because I tend to work on what I need. For instance right now I noticed the coin values in FRP and RMC for items are different and I need to change these.

Table is not scrollable - skill listing stops at Circle Lore
This is a bug for FGU. FGC this is a huge list and not scrollable but you can move the page up. I have to work on this, to get around this for now my recommendation is just add all secondary skills and then removed untrained when you finish. When i get the chance I look at what I can do here.

Has only 14 columns of data for the 19 profs

Hmm the data is there because if you change to Magent, Paladin or Dabble the data comes across correctly. This Page need a whole rework by the looks of things. I look at fonts but as well but it not all super easy as these tables are really old old tables that been cobbled together in RMC. Might have a chat to dakadin to see if we can improves these tables for future. Much of the code I have overlays the RMC code, else if there is a RMC update it could break the overlaying code, whcih also includes the fonts used. But you right it needs to be fixed.

So With weapon skills you do it this way.

Bring the seven weapons skills across and then enter into each skill and change the heading I noramlly just remove where it says Skill 1 and but in for instance -Weapon . 1H Edged. I then also add the stats so for the one described it would be St/Ag/St

I then Close this window, now say I want to add a Dagger under this I then Drag and drop the -Weapon . 1H Edged onto the skill list so it creates a duplicate, I change the duplicate and remove the heading to be Dagger. (Make sure not to touch at anytime the group)
I then changed the progression from CtG to Std. That is it. which bring me to you next point

What do you mean by "Stds"?
What I mean by this was, the previous version of FRP extension the progression stats were manually done no automation.

I worked on a way to make sure all the progressions are there Category, Standard, Combine, Limited, NA.
This if the Std is selected then it looks for the Category that in in the group and adds the Level bonus automatically to the Std skill.

This was a big deal for me as it required making a array, filtering and searching for the correct total. I am not a super duper coder I am self taught and although I am in the IT industry I am in a totally different area, so I was happy with the coding leap I had done here.

Not sure when I will get to your bugs but I do know about them now and get a chance soon to look at it I hope.

[Griffonbait]

error: Stats window
i could not get it to error as you have, please give me the exact process you did to create the error.

The issue occurs when you create the PC's stats, then click apply. It is repeatable and can be replicated.

The DPs change on the main STATS window because the STATS window DP Total field relies on the Stat Generation window's Total field's value

See BEFORE clicking Apply, and
FRP - Stat Gen - B4 Clicking Apply.png

AFTER clicking Apply:
FRP - Stat Gen - After Clicking Apply.png

error: Skill development window
where in the frp rules say it should be floor, this is the text taken from page 22
dps = (ag + co + me + re + sd) ÷ 5

the only area that i know it should be floor is in rank progression? If you can give me a solid rule for it happy to change it.

You are correct, there is no clearly direct statement other than an example, however, the example is clearly implying the use of FLOOR() in the DP spending process. As you have identified: Core Rulebook ICE#5800, p. 22, Apprenticeship Skill Development chapter.

Example: You have 61 development points to use to develop Varak’s skills: 61.2 = (96 + 90 + 38 + 43 + 39) ÷ 5.

The example given has 61.2 DPs getting FLOOR()-ed to 61.

An example with 61.9 DPs to spend would have the exact same 61 DPs to spend, because the PC has only 61.9 points to spend, not 70. See explanation:


If two PCs have 61.2 & 61.9 DPs, and spends these DPs as normal, then they can only spend in integer lots, with the smallest amount spendable to be 1 DP. In both cases, neither PC can spend their remaining 0.2 or 0.9 because it is not 1 whole DP.


Hence by the very definition of spending DPs, the FLOOR() value must be the amount available to spend - rounding a DP value to the nearest whole number can result in the PC having spent MORE DPs than they actually have.


Sorry to be a pain here, but as a mathematician, I can clearly see the solution, FLOOR(), being used.

A willing GM may allow for the PCs to save up their fractions of DPs over time, so that they can later spend any whole numbered amount, but that is more work for GM and players.




----

categories are missing profession bonus field

i tend to use "spec" field for the profession bonus, until dakadin and give all the text fields a variable name, there are some fields i cannot change. There is also not enough room another field there. So once all the text names have a variable name i can then change spec to be prof.

I suggested these very ideas to my own players. It would be good if the extensions went on GIT, SourceForge, or other. Purchasers are still the only ones who can use the RMC rule set, and I do not see anyone wanting to spend their time cracking a rarely used extension.

skills are missing category bonus field
no it is there it is called level in skill dev based on a similar issue above and ct bn in the skill window and is a non editable field.

I noticed tonight that you need to fill in categories first, before trying to develop skills.

missing prof: Alchemist (al)

i not sure how that ducked back in will have to remove that must me in one of the modules.
At the moment only frp core and character law professions have been added alchemist is not apart of these. There is literally a dozen professions not added, the work to currently add a profession is super hard as i would have to add the profession skill number to every skill included there is 200 odd skills. I have talked to dakadin about this and a newer version might be able to add professions easier. At the moment you will have to do it all manually in adding a profession.

Yes, I suggested this to the player who wants to be an Alchemist. If you are interested in getting some help with data entry, let me know. I have been programming in all these types of tables & values, multiple times across different languages since the early 90s, the latest being in C#

additional, unknown prof: Pr (priest?) this is on the far right and is not listed in the professions window.
you are correct this is priest, we had a priest in my game and i only half added it at the moment. Some of the additional stuff i add is purely for the fact when i started the frp extension is because i play it, its not because i am getting paid by anyone or trying to complete a complete ruleset for ruleset stakes. It comes out of the fact i add things when my current campaign requires things, so i made frp due to the need of a hobby then anything that why your might see sometimes some unfinished work because i tend to work on what i need. For instance right now i noticed the coin values in frp and rmc for items are different and i need to change these.

Yes, I understand. I do warn potential buyers of the pitfalls of purchasing any type of software that relies on a community to create the actual data and sequencing. It is all well and good for the original program devs to provide the facility to do so, but the community can be whimsical and fickle at best.

table is not scrollable - skill listing stops at circle lore
this is a bug for fgu. Fgc this is a huge list and not scrollable but you can move the page up. I have to work on this, to get around this for now my recommendation is just add all secondary skills and then removed untrained when you finish. When i get the chance i look at what i can do here.

Agreed, Your solution is how I do it atm.

has only 14 columns of data for the 19 profs

hmm the data is there because if you change to magent, paladin or dabble the data comes across correctly. This page need a whole rework by the looks of things. I look at fonts but as well but it not all super easy as these tables are really old old tables that been cobbled together in rmc. Might have a chat to dakadin to see if we can improves these tables for future. Much of the code i have overlays the rmc code, else if there is a rmc update it could break the overlaying code, whcih also includes the fonts used. But you right it needs to be fixed.

Get to it! <<cracks whip>>

I understand. Again, if I can help in any way...

so with weapon skills you do it this way.

bring the seven weapons skills across and then enter into each skill and change the heading i noramlly just remove where it says skill 1 and but in for instance -weapon . 1h edged. I then also add the stats so for the one described it would be st/ag/st

i then close this window, now say i want to add a dagger under this i then drag and drop the -weapon . 1h edged onto the skill list so it creates a duplicate, i change the duplicate and remove the heading to be dagger. (make sure not to touch at anytime the group)
i then changed the progression from ctg to std. That is it. Which bring me to you next point

Cool, thanks for that. I knew about the duplicating and the changing of ctg to std, but I didn't put 2 and 2 together, silly me.

what do you mean by "stds"?
what i mean by this was, the previous version of frp extension the progression stats were manually done no automation.

I worked on a way to make sure all the progressions are there category, standard, combine, limited, na.
This if the std is selected then it looks for the category that in in the group and adds the level bonus automatically to the std skill.

This was a big deal for me as it required making a array, filtering and searching for the correct total. I am not a super duper coder i am self taught and although i am in the it industry i am in a totally different area, so i was happy with the coding leap i had done here.

Not sure when i will get to your bugs but i do know about them now and get a chance soon to look at it i hope.

Well, I am sure that it is a labour of love, and that can only mean countless hours sunk into what feels like an ever deepening pit. You are amazing good sir!

Thank you for all your efforts. I, and my fellow gamers, do really appreciate it.

Take care.

[Dakadin]

The issue occurs when you create the PC's stats, then click apply. It is repeatable and can be replicated.

The DPs change on the main STATS window because the STATS window DP Total field relies on the Stat Generation window's Total field's value

See BEFORE clicking Apply, and
FRP - Stat Gen - B4 Clicking Apply.png

AFTER clicking Apply:
FRP - Stat Gen - After Clicking Apply.png

That's a bug I need to fix in the RMC ruleset. I will add it to my list.

You are correct, there is no clearly direct statement other than an example, however, the example is clearly implying the use of FLOOR() in the DP spending process. As you have identified: Core Rulebook ICE#5800, p. 22, Apprenticeship Skill Development chapter.



The example given has 61.2 DPs getting FLOOR()-ed to 61.

An example with 61.9 DPs to spend would have the exact same 61 DPs to spend, because the PC has only 61.9 points to spend, not 70. See explanation:


If two PCs have 61.2 & 61.9 DPs, and spends these DPs as normal, then they can only spend in integer lots, with the smallest amount spendable to be 1 DP. In both cases, neither PC can spend their remaining 0.2 or 0.9 because it is not 1 whole DP.


Hence by the very definition of spending DPs, the FLOOR() value must be the amount available to spend - rounding a DP value to the nearest whole number can result in the PC having spent MORE DPs than they actually have.


Sorry to be a pain here, but as a mathematician, I can clearly see the solution, FLOOR(), being used.

A willing GM may allow for the PCs to save up their fractions of DPs over time, so that they can later spend any whole numbered amount, but that is more work for GM and players.

Actually, it says to round off in the RMFRP core book on page 8 and gives two examples of rounding up:
RMFRP DP Calculations.JPG

----


I suggested these very ideas to my own players. It would be good if the extensions went on GIT, SourceForge, or other. Purchasers are still the only ones who can use the RMC rule set, and I do not see anyone wanting to spend their time cracking a rarely used extension.

If you have a copy of the extension, then you could always modify it for your own use but you would want to work with Ardem if you wanted to make the updates publicly available.

[Ardem]

Thanks Giffonbait for your replies, i am happy anytime you want to hook up voice wise for a what needs to be done to create a new profession. I can step you through the whole process. Discord or else where.

Thanks Dakadin, I knew somewhere I saw that ruling but could not remember where, as soon as I saw it the light bulb went on.

-----------------------------------------

Also I am happy for anyone to make there own changes to the ruleset off the extension I have created, I give my work freely to the community, however if there is work you do that can improve the main ext and they are not house rules but legitimate rules or data. I would more then welcome the help and include it in the main work. I am also very happy to help people achieve their goals whether it a new profession or more spell lists, I and more then willing to impart my knowledge.

This has been a labour of love and anything that sees the community grow or the ruleset improve is always welcomed.

[Ardem]

New Extension Update 2.13

I saw a number of issues with the Spell Casting Modifiers. I have adjusted this to accept Hybrid and Arcane.

Select Spell Type SCM for your modifiers for SCM, Ball Bolt and Basic only adds the Range modifier.

Note that the Used Powerpoint modifier is now working again.

ps To apply the modifier once you work it out you just double click the field and it will copy it to the modifier section in the lower right ready for your SCM roll on the Spell tab or the Base attack or Direct Spell roll on the combat window.

[Griffonbait]

That's a bug I need to fix in the RMC ruleset. I will add it to my list.



Actually, it says to round off in the RMFRP core book on page 8 and gives two examples of rounding up:
RMFRP DP Calculations.JPG



If you have a copy of the extension, then you could always modify it for your own use but you would want to work with Ardem if you wanted to make the updates publicly available.

Thanks for popping in, Dakadin. Good catch on the rounding - and thanks for the heads up. I do believe that the FRP writers messed up with their decimals. If you are going to mix integer math with real numbers, then ignore the results of integer math, it's a bit screwy. Thank God it is only a game. Rounding to nearest whole number it is then! So sad for the person who is on 61.4 versus 61.5 DPs, that could be the loss &/or gain of a whole skill rank, depending on your point of view.

Cheers

[Griffonbait]

Thanks for the offer. We are both Aussies, so that'll make it so much easier.

Fantasy Grounds Discord server should be fine.

I am retired so any timing is usually okay, other than gaming time, of course (Sunday arvos, and Monday morns atm).

Griffonbait is my handle on Discord.