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  1. #11
    I believe when set to remove on miss (in options), it still does that with saves - at least in classic. I'll double-check later to see if this still holds true. I can't speak for Unity, though.
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  2. #12
    Yeah, I missed your post at first and then you replied before I had time to edit mine. Stop being so fast and responsive, ShadeRaven! :P

  3. #13
    "Remove on Miss" does not affect saves and the current behavior of saves and targeting is rather quirky/bugged. When a save is successful then the successfully saved target is removed *after* a damage roll, regardless of whether the damage was halved or nullified. I frankly have no idea about the intended use of this behavior.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weissrolf View Post
    When a save is successful then the successfully saved target is removed *after* a damage roll, regardless of whether the damage was halved or nullified.
    This only occurs if the save is set to "Half on save" or "BASIC" in the NPC automation. It doesn't remove the targets as it needs all of them there to apply the relevant damage based off the save level of success.

    If the save action doesn't have "Half on save" set, and the campaign settings have remove on miss = multi, then any passed saving throws will be removed from the targets.
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  5. #15
    Why are the saves removed at all after applying damage then? How do I keep that from happening?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weissrolf View Post
    Why are the saves removed at all after applying damage then?
    Only those that passed the save are removed so that any additional effects can be applied to those that failed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weissrolf View Post
    How do I keep that from happening?
    You can't, it's coded into the Basic save functionality.
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  7. #17
    Hey Weissrolf. It's very rare that a BASIC save also has an effect that happens on a successful save but as I have done all of the Bestiaries, I can't think of a single instance where a Successful Save and a Failed Save have the same Effect on a BASIC saving throw.

    In other words, if it's tagged BASIC, just do the damage so the half-damage targets (or no damage on a crit success) are taken care of. There will never be a time (iirc) where you wished your saved and failed saving throw targets will be taking the exact same EFFECT off of that basic save. Don't sweat the small stuff, as they say.

    As for having to wrestle with the 4 categories of saving throws that include 4 different results for EFFECT attachments, it's an imperfect system. Part of what make Pathfinder 2 so intriguing and enjoyable to me is the new way they are handling crits for both strikes and saves. It'll take time to adjust all the resulting influences this change has brought about and it doesn't just involve getting changes to the PF2 code. Changes to the Core have much bigger effects that certainly take careful consideration and implementation before they can be realized.

    Hopefully (!), your campaign isn't full of too many Frightful Presence Dragons and AOE Aura Devils laying waste with their grand powers that cause all sorts of terrible (and variable) effects! On the bright side, the players will be too busy worrying about surviving to notice any delay in applying all the effects. It might even help them plan for a way to survive
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  8. #18
    I understand, this makes some sense. Getting that one-click effects solution would sure be nice.

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