Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition Ruleset error!

[Galdor]

You already have SWADE, it comes by default with either Savage Worlds ruleset purchases. The only thing you're missing is the SWADE books, which come with that particular DLC

That means I don't have NPCs, Items, etc.. we are discussing about effects embedded in Items here (which is a feature too useful to not include in SWD).

only the SWADE versions are to receive new features and updates. The SWD material only gets hotfixes if something is legit broken

As I previously recalled in this thread, underlining in the Product Shop Page what you wrote here above should be a duty towards customers. If I have known it, I never purchased SWD (and I would have bought SWADE instead).

The main reason why SWD is not getting all the new features is lack of time to develop and deliver them to both rulesets. Another reason is that SWD rules did not do good job making rules consistent which makes certain automation development impossible. SWADE rule updates fixed many of these rule issues and overall made SavageWorlds more streamlined which in the end allows more automation to be developed. Almost anything can be achieved with software development but not everything makes sense to be implemented.

If you invite IT unskilled customers (like me) to do it by themselves, such feature should not be so hard for a software developer to include in SWD, right?

You can argue what is fundamental and expected but these are the facts.

I am sorry but you wrote that only "few" rulesets have effects embedded in items: the facts are different, and I listed you several of the many rulesets which have such feature. That's the reason because I wrote that effects embedded in items are fundamental and expected by rulesets: simply because most of the rulesets have them!

SWD is very much playable and has been long before it had any automation.

This is an opinion, but it is denied by the fact that many automation have been added during time: it means that such automation were needful and/or made SWD much playable.

SWD is getting feature updates along with SWADE but my personal development time is more dedicated to design new features for SWADE and backport them to SWD if it is feasible complexity- and time wise.

May I kindly suggest to change your mind only on this specific feature: effects embedded in items for SWD?

[Ikael]

May I kindly suggest to change your mind only on this specific feature: effects embedded in items for SWD?

Could you kindly list what effects should be embedded to what items?

[Talyn]

D&D 5 ruleset has Effects embedded into items;
CoC7 has them;
Castles and Crusades has them;
Pathfinder has them;

D&D 5E absolutely does not have effects on items built in. Neither does Pathfinder (1E). Neither does C&C. Neither does CoC7E. Not sure what you're getting at, but those are patently false statements.

There is a community extension for 5E that allows effects on items, written by the author of the AD&D 2E ruleset which means 2E is pretty much the only other ruleset out there that ships with that feature (unless Pathfinder 2E does; I haven't taken the time to play around with that one yet and I don't own Traveller).

That's the reason because I wrote that effects embedded in items are fundamental and expected by rulesets: simply because most of the rulesets have them!

As I listed above, most rulesets absolutely do not provide that functionality. I'll agree that it's "expected" and I can back that up with tons of questions about that topic both here in the forums and on the Discord, but it's never been a built-in feature until SWADE and 2E did it, and both of those are recent developments, so not something that would be listed as features on the store pages.

As I previously recalled in this thread, underlining in the Product Shop Page what you wrote here above should be a duty towards customers. If I have known it, I never purchased SWD (and I would have bought SWADE instead).

As @Ikael stated very clearly, he still keeps SWD maintained and updated. That's more than can be said about a few other rulesets which are still for sale on the store. C&C just sat there rotting with no developer for 5+ years til @Andraax and I came aboard a couple years ago. Rolemaster had no developer for an even longer time, until a few months ago. 13th Age is 'new' but was nearly immediately abandoned by its developer until a few months ago when someone else was assigned to it. Savage Worlds has extremely active development, especially since @Ikael was placed in charge of the ruleset development and maintaining the product lineup here on FG. He's stated has no plans to add this specific feature to SWD but as we all know, plans change. So who knows? Something to keep in mind though that, aside from possibly requiring a massive re-write to large sections of the SWD ruleset which was never built to support it, only the base items would ship with that new feature. All the rest of the SWD DLC is from other developers who would have to be notified of the new feature and agree to patch in all the new data. It's not something that code alone fixes across the board.

The majority of Savage Worlds content out in the wild and here on FG was written for SWD, and some folks are resistant to change so they'd rather stick with what they know. Playing SWD content in the SWADE ruleset will eventually mean handling some converting on your own, which again is something we encounter nearly daily on Discord, forums, Facebook, etc. because a lot of other folk like the New Shiny™ (SWADE) but still want to play the older content. There's not a single ruleset on FG that handles things like a videogame where every possible interaction is automated or pre-programmed and you just sit back and let things happen on their own, and that's something SmiteWorks has been very opposed to anyway. They want the GMs to GM and the players to play, not just sit back and watch.

I feel like I'm just shooting down your hopes, and I honestly don't mean to. I see you've been a FG member for two years now, so belated "welcome!" I hope you get hours and hours of enjoyment from either or both editions of the Savage Worlds rulesets.

[Galdor]

I voluntarily skip most of Talyn arguments: we apparently have some different points of view.
I wish only address the following:

There's not a single ruleset on FG that handles things like a videogame where every possible interaction is automated or pre-programmed and you just sit back and let things happen on their own, and that's something SmiteWorks has been very opposed to anyway. They want the GMs to GM and the players to play, not just sit back and watch.

It is absolutely not a matter of "handling things like a videogame", or that "every possible interaction is automated or pre-programmed", neither "just sitting back and watch": I am just suggesting to facilitate/speed-up a lot of annoying book-keeping!
For example, if an effect like "+1 Parry" is not embedded in the Item, it means that I have to remember to modify my Parry value when I equip/use that Item, going to the appropriate sheet and manually modify it. It's only awkward book-keeping, a kind of book-keeping that should/could be cut in FG!

Could you kindly list what effects should be embedded to what items?

All the effects listed in the "Notes" on Armor table and on Melee Weapons table as well.
For example, the "Parry -1" effect of several weapons (it does not apply, I checked it); or the "+1 Parry" and "+2 Armor to ranged shot that hit"(*) of the Medium Shield (they do not apply even when equipped to PCs, I checked them); etc..

(*) the rule exactly states that the +2 Armor applies to ranged shot that hit the protected side, but I guess such specification could be too difficult to embed. It doesn't matter: it could be very useful if at least the main effects could be embedded in Shields, Weapons, etc..

[Ikael]

All the effects listed in the "Notes" on Armor table and on Melee Weapons table as well.
For example, the "Parry -1" effect of several weapons (it does not apply, I checked it); or the "+1 Parry" and "+2 Armor to ranged shot that hit"(*) of the Medium Shield (they do not apply even when equipped to PCs, I checked them); etc..

(*) the rule exactly states that the +2 Armor applies to ranged shot that hit the protected side, but I guess such specification could be too difficult to embed. It doesn't matter: it could be very useful if at least the main effects could be embedded in Shields, Weapons, etc..

I kindly refuse. If such effects are embedded to items, they should be reflected to all other resources such as NPCs which are using those items. Not to mention that all these changes should be done to 300+ other products for sake of consistency. That would be massive work that I do not plan to do.

[Varsuuk]

...
For example, if an effect like "+1 Parry" is not em...

Not addressing your larger point (I can't, I am not a dev here and have MINIMAL SW experience on FG) but I know in 5E, if I have an ability that interacts but doesn't have an auto effect - I create an "ability" like "Paladin Aura;AC:2;SAVE:1" etc (not sure if SYNTAX is even right for 5E and of course I made up the effect) that I click when I am near the Pally in radius and remove otherwise. Does NOT help make it "fast" but helps with not having to modify then unmodify the bonus.

Just create a "Gizmo;PARRY:1" etc (with right syntax) effect that you click on in the POWERS section if in SW there is no better part.

(others can chime in with their workarounds if likely better)

[Galdor]

Just create a "Gizmo;PARRY:1" etc (with right syntax) effect that you click on in the POWERS section if in SW there is no better part.

Forgive me Varsuuk: I did not understand anything you wrote (I am not a programmer).

I kindly refuse. If such effects are embedded to items, they should be reflected to all other resources such as NPCs which are using those items. Not to mention that all these changes should be done to 300+ other products for sake of consistency. That would be massive work that I do not plan to do.

The 'consistency' could be ignored: I was proposing to do the work for Armor table and for Melee Weapons table of the SWD base rulebook only. Stop. In the rare event that someone could use the 'Lankhmarian trident', well, the effects could be put down manually.
About NPCs: I guess that pre-made NPCs, included in the base rulebook, have all the statistics already pre-calculated on the base of weapons/armor worn, right? So no work for them. It certainly could be useful that the Effects embedded in weapons/armors being embedded also for NPCs, so when I equip a NPC with a weapon/armor the effects are embedded also for them.. but is it a so cumbersome work to allow it?

[Ikael]

The 'consistency' could be ignored: I was proposing to do the work for Armor table and for Melee Weapons table of the SWD base rulebook only. Stop. In the rare event that someone could use the 'Lankhmarian trident', well, the effects could be put down manually.
About NPCs: I guess that pre-made NPCs, included in the base rulebook, have all the statistics already pre-calculated on the base of weapons/armor worn, right? So no work for them. It certainly could be useful that the Effects embedded in weapons/armors being embedded also for NPCs, so when I equip a NPC with a weapon/armor the effects are embedded also for them.. but is it a so cumbersome work to allow it?

I have understood your request and my work is to analyze how ruleset changes would and should affect the whole product line. Although you personally would need it only for SWD, the fact is that consistency is important throughout the product line. This feature request is categorized as "nice to have" for SWD and not worth implementing due to overall work effort it would require. You can manually manage embedded effects yourself in SWD. I won't be commenting further on this topic.

[Doswelk]

It is absolutely not a matter of "handling things like a videogame", or that "every possible interaction is automated or pre-programmed", neither "just sitting back and watch": I am just suggesting to facilitate/speed-up a lot of annoying book-keeping!
For example, if an effect like "+1 Parry" is not embedded in the Item, it means that I have to remember to modify my Parry value when I equip/use that Item, going to the appropriate sheet and manually modify it...

you mean like I have been doing since 2008 with Savage Worlds ruleset...

automation is not needed and I find slows things down sometimes, besides in a face to face game a piece of paper character sheet doesn’t automatically add the +1 parry.

it would be nice to have but it is not a requirement to play savage worlds on FG

[mac40k]

you mean like I have been doing since 2008 with Savage Worlds ruleset...

automation is not needed and I find slows things down sometimes, besides in a face to face game a piece of paper character sheet doesn’t automatically add the +1 parry.

it would be nice to have but it is not a requirement to play savage worlds on FG

This guy would have hated older versions of SWD. Remember when we had to manually add the +1d6 to damage when getting a hit with a raise? LOL!