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  1. #21
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    I look forward to the creation of the extension. It will only add to the value of FG and this community.

    Current Projects: Ultimate Undermountain (NYDUM)
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  2. #22
    Minty23185Fresh's Avatar
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    A more concrete example might serve to separate the men from the boys, so to speak.
    Let’s just assume that a player has PTSD from being a POW in Vietnam. Subjected to tortures beyond imagination (I would hope).

    This “non-adult” sitting at the table may have no wishes to relive torture in any forum. And may not want to even share them nor believe anyone, including a DM, has any right to hear about them.

    Nipping a graphic torture scene in the bud seems a reasonable and adult thing to do, as least in my mind.

    (Oops. Sorry. The use of “you” tends to be accusatory - edited.)
    Last edited by Minty23185Fresh; January 19th, 2020 at 23:35.

  3. #23
    I've played with adults and with kids (and, if the rumors are to be believed, I was a kid once myself.) If someone can't keep himself from getting too far into the grizzly details in a campaign with kids, he simply needs a talking-to and perhaps an univite if he can't get with the program. If someone has an issue he can't talk about, he needs to make people aware of that. If the group doesn't collectively agree to avoid the issue, well... the player with a problem can leave the group. This is a game, participation is not mandatory.

    If it is so difficult for you to engage with your fellow players to the point that you can't make people aware of potentially serious issues or trauma that you're dealing with, then a TTRPG kind of social game might not be your thing--or might be a thing that you introduce to your support group in a therapeutic context.

    Like chess, Clue, or darts, tabletop RPGs are not social frameworks. These are activities that social groups engage in, and might constitute a common interest that brings a group of people together. Expecting the RPG or the virtual tabletop to handle your social matters is unrealistic and counterproductive.

  4. #24
    Minty23185Fresh's Avatar
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    Does one always know what’s going to bother one beforehand? I might be fine with mashing a bunch of ogre children, but not know until presented with it as the party visits the puppy mill we start to do the same to a bunch of brown eyed puppies that that is over the top.

    I realize this is a ludicrous example, all I’m saying is, I might not know until I know, and that’s hard to discuss beforehand.

    The safety tool is just a tool, and I fall back on, I think it was in AVP, “...it’s better to have one and not need it than need one and not have it...”

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Minty23185Fresh View Post
    A more concrete example might serve to separate the men from the boys, so to speak.
    Let’s just assume that a player has PTSD from being a POW in Vietnam. Subjected to tortures beyond imagination (I would hope).

    This “non-adult” sitting at the table may have no wishes to relive torture in any forum. And may not want to even share them nor believe anyone, including a DM, has any right to hear about them.

    Nipping a graphic torture scene in the bud seems a reasonable and adult thing to do, as least in my mind.

    (Oops. Sorry. The use of “you” tends to be accusatory - edited.)
    I'd be happy to have such a "non-adult" as a player.

  6. #26
    Oh, ok. I was under the impression that the X Card or whatever was not anonymous in F2F games (cons and such). Thus I assumed that a comparable item in FG would not be either.

    Look, I'm not against such a thing existing in FG. I'm just wasn't seeing (obviously) where the communication structure in FG or other Chat system adds anything. UNLESS the person wants to remain anonymous. So I can see where such a thing might be helpful.

    Just because I wouldn't feel inclined to use such a thing in my games is no reason for such a thing to not exist. I hope such a thing comes about for those who need it.

  7. #27

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    As a general point - since the GM's computer hosts the game, there is no possibility of guaranteeing anonymity from the GM. While any extension, or even code built into a ruleset like CoreRPG, might not announce who is sending the "complaint", it would be trivial on the GM's side to hack the extension to announce the person making the report. After all, the GM's computer manages all the communication, so it always knows where something originated from.

    And for the examples given - there would not need to be a "detailed" discussion of what would trigger someone, nor a need to discuss what caused your distress. Just a simple comment like "please avoid rape scenes because I don't like them" or "please don't detail torture scenes because they cause me problems" or similar is all that is needed.

  8. #28
    Kelrugem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andraax View Post
    Nope, just pointing out that I have no use for them, nor would I play with anyone who thought they were needed. I play with adults who discuss problems, not people who are too immature to give voice to their concerns.
    Then, sorry to say this, you do not have any idea or clue about what people have to face when they suffer from things like anxiety. This has nothing to do with maturity at all. To say that these people are not adults is a dangerous and exclusive language and one of many reasons why there are sadly so many dangerous stigmata about mental illnesses.

    The social in "social tabletop games" also means to create inclusive environments for those who have to face things like anxiety by avoiding triggers for example. (with trigger I especially mean triggers as defined in psychology which can be really dangerous and exhausting). A trigger can already mean to speak about that subject and to show one's problems with some specific subject (especially because we speak here about FG where it is possible to play with people one never met before; you can not expect that everyone speaks with everyone about everything. But the arguments still also hold for games with friends)

    (Moreover, I would tend to say that people who suffer from things like anxiety are in general more mature than the ones who claim that peoples with anxiety are not an "adult", especially because the former knows what anxiety means and such people tend to create more inclusive environments etc.. At least your statement shows a lot but not maturity or education with respect to this subject)

    PS: Anxiety is just an example here, there are sadly many more causes

    PPS: Sorry for the answer but it is in my opinion important to stand up in such subjects
    Last edited by Kelrugem; January 20th, 2020 at 01:34.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelrugem View Post
    Then, sorry to say this, you do not have any idea or clue about what people have to face when they suffer from things like anxiety. This has nothing to do with maturity at all. To say that these people are not adults is a dangerous and exclusive language and one of many reasons why there are sadly so many dangerous stigmata about mental illnesses.
    I did not say that people suffering from anxiety or PTSD are immature - perhaps you should go back and read what I said rather than making up things and attributing them to me. I said that people who are incapable of discussing things like adults are immature.

    Perhaps people who cannot articulate their thoughts regarding subjects which bother them are not good candidates for a social activity that requires players to discuss things. A purely anonymous online game might be more suited to their abilities, not one that is usually a collaborative effort among friends.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Andraax View Post
    As a general point - since the GM's computer hosts the game, there is no possibility of guaranteeing anonymity from the GM. While any extension, or even code built into a ruleset like CoreRPG, might not announce who is sending the "complaint", it would be trivial on the GM's side to hack the extension to announce the person making the report. After all, the GM's computer manages all the communication, so it always knows where something originated from.

    And for the examples given - there would not need to be a "detailed" discussion of what would trigger someone, nor a need to discuss what caused your distress. Just a simple comment like "please avoid rape scenes because I don't like them" or "please don't detail torture scenes because they cause me problems" or similar is all that is needed.
    Yes, it would be possible to see the communication and determine the source if one tried hard enough. Since FG's communication isn't encrypted, a simple packet capture would probably be enough. But if a GM is actively hacking communication that is expected to be anonymous and private, that would be actively hostile. Thankfully, I doubt anyone would do that. Why would they? I would not consider this possibility a reason not to have this feature available.

    I agree that some kind of discussion can (and in most cases, should) happen, preferably during a "session zero" but as I understand it it's sometimes the case that one doesn't know what will trigger them until they see it's about to happen. It's also true that people often do not want to be labelled as "the one who got raped" for example, and so they may not wish to bring it up with the group or even with the GM in private, for fear that those simple comments turn into rumors.
    Last edited by notrealdan; January 20th, 2020 at 02:12.

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