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  1. #21
    Zacchaeus's Avatar
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    You are ddealing with magic resistance incorrectly becasue you cannot use magic along with RESIST to achieve your purpose. FG keys on a trait called Magic Resistance on an NPC (or on a PC) to achieve the correct result. So if you apply an effect to any creature called Magic Resistance then you will get the correct result. Using RESIST: magic will not get the correct result. See the attached graphic.

    I don't know what else to tell you but Incorporeal works and as far as I can tell always has. It has not been updated recently or even at all as far as I can tell.
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  2. #22
    On incorporeal, I am pretty sure that I spelled it correctly and redid the test multiple times with the same result. Maybe it was some FG thing. I don't know. In the end, it doesn't matter, I guess. I won't be using that tag. It was just a point of confusion as I was trying to parse the ruleset quickly via the wiki. I should have just RTFM'd, but I thought I was by looking at the wiki.

    Anyway - thanks, damned. I think I see the disconnect relating to testing vs. how the 5E ruleset works based on the description of your test.

    1. When dragging over Pseuodragon from the SRD, it gets the literal effect "Magic Resistance" and NOT RESIST:magic (as I was using in my testing above). That was my key point of failure that was really not obvious to me. I was adding RESIST:magic to the creature in the CT. Instead, with the (correct-as-implemented) effect text "Magic Resistance" in place and checking the "Magic?" button in the spell setup, the target gets advantage on the save. Great! So there is no save/resistance bug when using the correct effect text.

    So, then my remaining question is:
    1. Given that the 5E ruleset is using "Magic Resistance" as its syntax for advantage, is it possible to add a "Magic Vulnerability" effect to roll disadvantage vs. magic? While not specifically in the MM SRD, it is used in the community and is a sensible addition as the direct opposite of the resistance case (and should probably work).

    I guess I can see the rationale in using "Magic Resistance" to disambiguate vs. RESIST:magic (weapon damage), but it was non-obvious to me and I did not see "Magic Resistance" at the end of the wiki table. I must have just visually skipped over it.

    Zacchaeus - sorry for the back-and-forth. I understand now why we were not aligning in our discussion and it was my fault. For future communication, it would have helped me to see something like: You must use the exact effect text "Magic Resistance" and not "RESIST:magic" in order to have advantage on saves when doing a targeted cast with the Magic? radio button checked. I really wasn't getting past the RESIST/VULN tags in trying to quickly adapt from Pathfinder to 5E. So - sorry about that.
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  3. #23
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacchaeus View Post
    You are ddealing with magic resistance incorrectly becasue you cannot use magic along with RESIST to achieve your purpose. FG keys on a trait called Magic Resistance on an NPC (or on a PC) to achieve the correct result. So if you apply an effect to any creature called Magic Resistance then you will get the correct result. Using RESIST: magic will not get the correct result. See the attached graphic.
    Yep.

    RESIST is used purely for damage resistance - it has no impact on making a saving throws.

    In fact, the 5E FG ruleset has very little coding for adjusting saving throws based off the detailed subtypes of the saving throw (e.g. there's no automation for a saving throw specifically against poison, disease, etc.).

    In the spell/ability use subwindow for a spell base action there is the "Magic?" check box - this sets is rAction.magic = true in the FG code, which adds [MAGIC] to the action description text. This [MAGIC] descriptor is also set if a NPC save action contains the word "magic" in the save text. Other than being a description in the chat text, the only thing this [MAGIC] descriptor does (as part of the save action) is to check for two specifically worded conditions and one trait: the "Magic Resistance" condition in the CT for all "[MAGIC]" tagged save actions. And for a intelligence, wisdom or charisma saves with "[MAGIC]" tagged, the save action code looks for a condition in the CT of "Gnome Cunning" or it checks for a trait of the same name. If any of these conditions or trait are found (and the other checks are true - for "[MAGIC]" and the specific save ability) then the save has advantage.

    EDIT: The "Magic Resistance" condition is added to a NPC when it is added into the combat tracker if it has a power name of "magic resistance", as part of the parseNPCPower function.

    So, to reiterate... RESIST: magic is for resisting damage with the "magic" damage type. A save type tagged as "[MAGIC]" in the save action text has limited automation - only looking for two specific conditions or one trait.

    Details on 5E damage resistance here: https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/5e_SRD..._Vulnerability
    Last edited by Trenloe; December 15th, 2019 at 14:46.
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  4. #24
    Thanks for the additional replies and for the technical explanation. I appreciate it. As explained in my reply, I understand the distinction in the 5E ruleset now between "RESIST:magic" and "Magic Resistance", and I did not see the reply from Zacchaeus on page 3 before writing my last reply. The "Magic Resistance" text was the key point I needed to understand where I was going astray in trying to cross over to the 5E ruleset.

    Hopefully, it might be possible to also add support for "Magic Vulnerability" so that creatures can have a saving disadvantage vs. magic. It seems to be a useful mechanic that would support additional homebrew/community needs, and it would be nice to have, even if it isn't specifically defined in the MM SRD.
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  5. #25
    Something you will come to understand for the 5e ruleset is that it is specifically made to interact with only the official rules, without a lot of room to accommodate house rules. Many of the systems in the ruleset are hard-coded to search for a specific set of words that appears in one of the WotC books instead of handling the mechanic internally and so you cannot deviate from this exact wording.
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  6. #26
    Thanks, Nickademus. Yes - I appreciate that. For me, crossing over, some of it is a bit disorienting. Also, the dramatic reduction in detail in 5E takes some getting used to vs. Pathfinder. If it's not possible to do some of these things, then maybe it's a good case for extensions. Otherwise, maybe a "Vulnerability to Magic" effect is hypothetically a low-risk, easy add that may end up appearing in the future anyway. It's not likely to cause a conflict, and other non-SRD effects like "incorporeal," as above, already exist. I would put forward that something like "Vulnerability to Magic" is probably more useful and functionally closer to the existing rules than is "incorporeal." But, if not...maybe an extension at some point.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by HoloGnome View Post
    Thanks, Nickademus. Yes - I appreciate that. For me, crossing over, some of it is a bit disorienting. Also, the dramatic reduction in detail in 5E takes some getting used to vs. Pathfinder. If it's not possible to do some of these things, then maybe it's a good case for extensions. Otherwise, maybe a "Vulnerability to Magic" effect is hypothetically a low-risk, easy add that may end up appearing in the future anyway. It's not likely to cause a conflict, and other non-SRD effects like "incorporeal," as above, already exist. I would put forward that something like "Vulnerability to Magic" is probably more useful and functionally closer to the existing rules than is "incorporeal." But, if not...maybe an extension at some point.
    This does sound like what extensions are for. Dunno how to do this specific effect, but many extensions cover home rules.

  8. #28
    There is actually another bug here. FG does not correctly translate the NPC text "Magic Resistance" in the NPC Damage Resistances field when dragging the NPC to the combat tracker.

    FG converts "Magic Resistance" to "RESIST:magic". It should leave the text "Magic Resistance" unchanged and be able to recognize the following forms: "Magic Resistance", "RESIST:magic" and the word "magic" on its own and do the right thing.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoloGnome View Post
    There is actually another bug here. FG does not correctly translate the NPC text "Magic Resistance" in the NPC Damage Resistances field when dragging the NPC to the combat tracker.

    FG converts "Magic Resistance" to "RESIST:magic". It should leave the text "Magic Resistance" unchanged and be able to recognize the following forms: "Magic Resistance", "RESIST:magic" and the word "magic" on its own and do the right thing.
    Why? What advantage would have multiple syntax's for the same thing provide? The 'proper' format in the CT for NPC is "RESIST:magic" so that's why FG converts the trait of "Magic Resistance" to that in the CT.

    We have to remember that the more syntax's FG recognizes, the more of an adverse performance impact there is and the more overhead maintenance requires (i.e. slowing down improvements and decreasing overall quality).

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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LordEntrails View Post
    Why? What advantage would have multiple syntax's for the same thing provide? The 'proper' format in the CT for NPC is "RESIST:magic" so that's why FG converts the trait of "Magic Resistance" to that in the CT.

    We have to remember that the more syntax's FG recognizes, the more of an adverse performance impact there is and the more overhead maintenance requires (i.e. slowing down improvements and decreasing overall quality).
    As explained earlier in this thread, the explicit FG effect "Magic Resistance" is required in order for creatures to have advantage on saves vs. spells per the SRD (when the "magic" radio button is set up on the cast effect of the source). The 5E client is not working properly, since it is translating "Magic Resistance" (the explicit, required effect text) to "RESIST:magic" (a text effect that halves magic damage) in the combat tracker which, subsequently, DOES NOT provide the target advantage on saves vs. magic. It is a bug that needs to be fixed. Try it, and you will easily see what I'm talking about.

    Edit: Never mind - I searched all the NPCs for one that has Magic Resistance and saw that it copied correctly. The solution is that it has be defined as a trait named "Magic Resistance". Doing it that way means that it copies to the CT correctly. However, we shouldn't have to use different fields when trying to do rapid NPC setup. If the 5e client sees "Magic Resistance" in the resistance field, it should probably copy it over as is (which is not the same as RESIST:magic or just the word magic).
    Last edited by HoloGnome; January 13th, 2020 at 23:50.
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