Page 1 of 5 123 ... Last
  1. #1
    Trenloe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, USA (for a bit)
    Posts
    24,169

    Pathfinder Second Edition - generic DLC issue thread

    This thread is used for reporting issues that aren't covered with the other major DLC threads, listed here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...l=1#post452025 It covers DLC such as adventures and adventure paths, etc..

    Please log information regading any issues found with generic DLC (not the ruleset or mainstream core/setting DLC) in this thread, with as much details as possible. Including:
    1. The name of the product.
    2. The issue.
    3. The name of the sections/objects impacted (e.g. the map name, the feat name, the story title, etc.)
    4. If you know a fix, what that fix should be.
    5. Screenshots if appropriate.


    We'll then make sure the relevant DLC developer is aware of the issue.

    Thanks for helping us keep the PF2 DLC correct and better for all!
    FG Con 15 Fantasy Grounds Online RPG Convention - Nov. 8-10, 2019
    Register at www.fg-con.com for all the latest info.

    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  2. #2
    Allmight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    253
    Name: Age of Ashes - Hellknight Hill (AP)
    Issue: An encounter is marked as Severe with XP set at 90. According to the AP, and story entry it should be Moderate, which means XP 80 according to the rules.
    Map: Citadel Altaerein Vaults
    Room: B9 - Lounge
    Story Entry: 4.05.09. B9. Lounge [Moderate 2]
    Encounter: 4.05.09. Encounter: Citadel Altaerein Vaults, Lounge
    Fantasy Grounds Official Discord Server
    [ULTIMATE LICENSE HOLDER]
    [FGU BACKER]


  3. #3
    Trenloe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, USA (for a bit)
    Posts
    24,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Allmight View Post
    Name: Age of Ashes - Hellknight Hill (AP)
    Issue: An encounter is marked as Severe with XP set at 90. According to the AP, and story entry it should be Moderate, which means XP 80 according to the rules.
    Map: Citadel Altaerein Vaults
    Room: B9 - Lounge
    Story Entry: 4.05.09. B9. Lounge [Moderate 2]
    Encounter: 4.05.09. Encounter: Citadel Altaerein Vaults, Lounge
    Thanks for reporting. The threat text is actually set by the base PFRPG2 ruleset. When I created the code there was no specific guideline in the Core Rules that said where the exact cut-off was for XP budget (Table 10-1 on page 489). Simply that 80xp is Moderate and 120 is Severe. So I coded the threat text (if it's not already entered) to be <= 80 (but above 60) for threat level Moderate. As this encounter is 90xp for a party of 4 second level characters, the ruleset inserted "Severe" for the threat text.

    Ultimately, this doesn't effect the XP allocated to the PCs, but it does make for a disconnect between the AP text and the FG encounter. I'll try to see if there's some definitive details on the exact cutover that Paizo use between Severe and Moderate encounters and adjust the ruleset as required. Logged as ruleset issue RS2.056.
    FG Con 15 Fantasy Grounds Online RPG Convention - Nov. 8-10, 2019
    Register at www.fg-con.com for all the latest info.

    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  4. #4
    Allmight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    253
    Naah, they only say that the XP has to be somewhere around the xp value in the table. So XP is not really a problem as is, but the category Severe almost triped me. I have a group of 5 players so i have to up the XP budget for my encounters. And when i was doing that for this specific encounter i started to up it as a Severe encounter. But the XP value made me think twice and i looked it up in the AP book, and noticed it was classified as a Moderate. Was easy enough to change it myself for my campaign, but others might fall for it, and hence it becomes a much to challenging encounter. Hence i thought it was worth reporting, mostly for the category, not so much the XP.
    Last edited by Allmight; October 7th, 2019 at 16:30.
    Fantasy Grounds Official Discord Server
    [ULTIMATE LICENSE HOLDER]
    [FGU BACKER]


  5. #5
    Trenloe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, USA (for a bit)
    Posts
    24,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Allmight View Post
    Hence i thought it was worth reporting, mostly for the category, not so much the XP.
    Absolutely!

    I'll try to compare a bunch of encounters and see if I can come up with what Paizo might use (but may not stick to).

    The code in the ruleset will only do the rough auto calculation if the threat text isn't set when the encounter is opened - so you can always override that text if needs be, or set it initially and FG won't change it.

    There will be code in a future release that does a better job of recommending the XP/threat level based off the party level (taken from the party sheet - probably a manual entry as the Core Rules are very hazy on how to calculate party level if the PCs aren't all the same level).
    FG Con 15 Fantasy Grounds Online RPG Convention - Nov. 8-10, 2019
    Register at www.fg-con.com for all the latest info.

    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  6. #6
    Trenloe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, USA (for a bit)
    Posts
    24,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Allmight View Post
    Name: Age of Ashes - Hellknight Hill (AP)
    Issue: An encounter is marked as Severe with XP set at 90. According to the AP, and story entry it should be Moderate, which means XP 80 according to the rules.
    Map: Citadel Altaerein Vaults
    Room: B9 - Lounge
    Story Entry: 4.05.09. B9. Lounge [Moderate 2]
    Encounter: 4.05.09. Encounter: Citadel Altaerein Vaults, Lounge
    Can you run an update and check it now please? You may need to revert changes on the encounter record before you open it to see the change.

    I've made some changes to the base ruleset that takes the threat text calculation cutoff as the XP average of two threat levels - for example, Moderate (80xp) and Severe (120xp) will have the cutoff of 100xp = Moderate, 101xp = Severe.

    https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...tober-8th-2019
    FG Con 15 Fantasy Grounds Online RPG Convention - Nov. 8-10, 2019
    Register at www.fg-con.com for all the latest info.

    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  7. #7
    Allmight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    253
    I started a new Campaign to test this to make sure to get a fresh untouched one for this. However, the result is exactly the same as before.

    Encounter.png

    So it's still not listing it correctly. The AP lists the encounter a Moderate, even the story entry lists it as moderate, but encounter remain listed as a severe encounter.

    The rules lists 80 XP as moderate, with a note that the xp can vary somewhat above and below as long as it remains close. I would say 90 in this case would be considered close, hence moderate.

    Or am i missing something?
    Fantasy Grounds Official Discord Server
    [ULTIMATE LICENSE HOLDER]
    [FGU BACKER]


  8. #8
    Trenloe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, USA (for a bit)
    Posts
    24,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Allmight View Post
    The rules lists 80 XP as moderate, with a note that the xp can vary somewhat above and below as long as it remains close. I would say 90 in this case would be considered close, hence moderate.
    Yes, I agree with you. Hence why I said in my previous post that I'd changed the ruleset to consider the moderate XP threat as 100 and below.

    Let me look into it further.
    FG Con 15 Fantasy Grounds Online RPG Convention - Nov. 8-10, 2019
    Register at www.fg-con.com for all the latest info.

    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  9. #9
    Allmight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    253
    I do have a question though. In the rules it says...

    Note that if you adjust your XP budget to account for party size, the XP awards for the encounter don’t change—you’ll always award the amount of XP listed for a group of four characters.
    Does'nt that sugest that the XP amount is more of a set value rather than a variable one? So moderate encounters for ex., are always 80xp no matter the xp value of the foes nor the amount of players the encounter is built for? That's kind of how i inerpreted the xp rules.

    99.9% of the encounters in the AP is by the book, moderate xp 80, severe xp 120 and so on. Only one i've seen so far that is not is this specific one that is Severe xp 90. Not sure how it works behind the scenes, but to me, that more looks like a typo rather than anything else?
    Last edited by Allmight; October 9th, 2019 at 13:36.
    Fantasy Grounds Official Discord Server
    [ULTIMATE LICENSE HOLDER]
    [FGU BACKER]


  10. #10
    Trenloe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, USA (for a bit)
    Posts
    24,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Allmight View Post
    Does'nt that sugest that the XP amount is more of a set value rather than a variable one? So moderate encounters for ex., are always 80xp no matter the xp value of the foes nor the amount of players the encounter is built for? That's kind of how i inerpreted the xp rules.
    That line you quote is for adjusting the final XP budget if there are more (or less) than 4 PCs in the party, but (as it states) you'll award the base XP that would go to 4 PCs, you don't adjust the XP award if you're added (or removed) creatures for the number of PCs in the party being above or below 4.

    The initial encounter budget is for 4 players and, as you've said earlier, the exact amount of XP for each threat level can vary above and below the exact XP budget given in table 10-1. So a moderate encounter is not fixed at 80xp.

    The details regarding adjusting for PCs above or below 4 is after you've done the encounter XP budget for 4 PCs, which could be 90, 100, 30, 55, whatever - and that amount (for 4 PCs) is used to give the approximate threat level of the encounter. But this XP (calculated for 4 players) is what you give out per PC, even if you then adjust the encounter for parties with more or less than 4 PCs.

    For example, you want to create a moderate encounter for a party of PCs that are level 1. The moderate budget is 80xp. You pick 3 level 0 creatures - which are 30xp each (party level -1) for a total of 90xp, still a moderate encounter. Each PC would get 90xp if this encounter was defeated. Now, if there are not 4 PCs in the party, you'd use the "character adjustment" per PC (20xp for a moderate encounter), so if there are 5 PCs in the party it's up to the GM if they want to add another level 0 creature (30xp for party level = 1, which might make the encounter a bit harder than moderate) or add a level -1 creature (20xp for a level 1 party). But adding extra creatures due to party size doesn't change the base 90xp awarded to each PC for the encounter.
    FG Con 15 Fantasy Grounds Online RPG Convention - Nov. 8-10, 2019
    Register at www.fg-con.com for all the latest info.

    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in