FGU Sharing LOS Definitions for Maps - Crowd Project

[Zacchaeus]

I've found that the snapping was randomly turning off while it's still on, and it's been weird cause I would want to place the doors first but the walls never wanted to snap to them(not sure why's it doing that on some of the maps, and it would create more points instead of stretching to the points on the walls). I think those pillars missing you mention are a bug cause I did them all, but they would disappear after I close the program (also find them on another map that I never had open). Do you know how to do an incremental move to the right, and left as well?

I found some issues with not being able to add occluders and reported here. You may want to add to that thread.

[Zacchaeus]

PATHFINDER 2 - AGE OF ASHES AP - HELLKNIGHT HILL

Here is my first iteration of Pathfinder 2 - Hellknight Hill.

Thanks Allmight, I'll have a look at this tomorrow.

[Zacchaeus]

PATHFINDER 2 - AGE OF ASHES AP - HELLKNIGHT HILL

Here is my first iteration of Pathfinder 2 - Hellknight Hill.

Allmight, I've had a look at these and this is nice work. I've got some feedback for you.

Citadel Alterein

• You've missed a secret door at the bottom left of the map into area A9 from outside
• I'd add terrain occluders to all of the arrow slits/windows. Without some kind of blocker it is possible to see for example from area A1 into Area A13.
• In A12 I'd do the stairs as in the attached graphic. If the whole stairs are done as terrain, tokens will be able to move onto the stairs anywhere along it's length. By adding a wall and terrain blockers it forces tokens to climb the stairs and only reveals part of them as the token climbs the stair.
• In area A20 It isn't clear how high the bookshelves are but I would either leave terrain blockers off altogether or make them terrain objects rather than walls.

Citadel Alterein Battlements

• I don't think a terrain blocker is needed on the inside wall since the PCs are coming from the area below so will have already seen it. There should perhaps be blockers on the outside wall however. But this may just be for aesthetic reasons

Citadel Alterein Vaults

• There's a couple of missing wall segments to the left of the secret door on the far side of B1
• There should be terrain objects over the rubble in B1, B7, B10 and B12.

Guardian's Way

• For the central tower at C2 the terrain occluder allows a token on the ground to see the entire first and second platforms. I think the occluder should be as shown in my screenshot attached. (the same would apply to the other two platforms at C3 and C5.
• For the trees I see where you are coming from in using walls for the tree trunks. Generally though we've been treating vegetation as terrain. I attach an image which leaves your walls but adds terrain as well. I'm debating this one - I'm not sure what would be the best solution. So I'll leave it to you.

General

• For outside maps it's best to draw a wall around the periphery of the map otherwise tokens will be able to see out of the map.

[Allmight]

Allmight, I've had a look at these and this is nice work. I've got some feedback for you.

Thanks for the feedback, i will get right on it.

Two questions though.

1. The stairs in the first picture, aren't the terrain occluders uneccecary? I think you would be able to se the stairs clearly from the base and top since nothing blocks the sight. You clearly would see the stairs from the side as is, terrain occluders don't block from the side. If we place the occluders like that, we need to extend them so they cover the courtyard side of the stairs as well?

2. Last picture. Doing it like that assumes the trees doesn't have bare trunks. So my question is, should we generally assume tree foilage go all the way down to the ground, unless otherwise specified in the text for the area?

Regardless, great feedback. Not sure how i could miss those missing walls
Anyhow, should have the new updated file done fairly fast.

[Zacchaeus]

Thanks for the feedback, i will get right on it.

Two questions though.

1. The stairs in the first picture, aren't the terrain occluders uneccecary? I think you would be able to se the stairs clearly from the base and top since nothing blocks the sight. You clearly would see the stairs from the side as is, terrain occluders don't block from the side. If we place the occluders like that, we need to extend them so they cover the courtyard side of the stairs as well?

2. Last picture. Doing it like that assumes the trees doesn't have bare trunks. So my question is, should we generally assume tree foilage go all the way down to the ground, unless otherwise specified in the text for the area?

Regardless, great feedback. Not sure how i could miss those missing walls
Anyhow, should have the new updated file done fairly fast.

1. There's certainly an argument that occluders aren't needed on the stairs. My thinking is that a token at the bottom of the stairs would not be able to see the landing at the top and so I'd have at least one occluder near the top to prevent LOS to that. In this particular case of course the top of the starits are on a different map so they're probably as you say unneeded. You are also right that in this case you can see the length of the stairs from the side. My concern as I said was that a token could enter the stairts at any point along the side if only a terrain blocker is used. Again, however, in this case nothing is going to turn on whether the token moves onto the stairs at any point other than from the bottom. I was probably being picky on this one.

2. Up until now we've just use terrain for trees (sometimes it isn't clear whether the vegetation is trees or bushes). You're the first one that has come up with the idea that the branches of the tree are unlikely to extend all the way down to the ground and used walls just for the trunks. This of course could well depend on the type of tree. Looking in my garden at the 50 or so 100 ft. tall Scots Pine trees in it the branches don't start until about 60 feet up. On the other hand there's some silver birch mixed in which are of a similar height and their branches almost touch the ground. And of course in both cases the trunks are pretty solid and can't be seen through. So I think that either method is perfectly fine and we shouldn't get too hung up on it. We could leave it up to DMs to add more occluders (or, of course, switch some off) to suit their needs. I suppose for the sake of consistency we should go with just the terrain occluders and ignore the trunk. But I'm going to leave this one up to you.

[Allmight]

Thanks for your time giving advice.

1. Yeah, stairs in A12 are kind of unimportant, cause when you get around to players climbing them, you have already switched to the battlements map anyhow, so i'll leave them without any terrain at all.
2. Some good points there. I'll stick with terrain occluders as per your sugestion.

Should have a new version of the xml file within an hour or two.

[Allmight]

PATHFINDER 2 - AGE OF ASHES AP - HELLKNIGHT HILL UPDATE

I have updated the occluders as per requested, and made some other minor tweaks.

CITADEL ALTAERIN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Added missing secret door in area A9.
- Added terrain occluders in all arrow slits.
- Removed terrain occluder from stairs in area A12.
- Changed wall occluders to terrain occluders on bookshelves in area A20, and left them set to open. This way the GM can decide if they block LOS or not.
- Changed wall occluder to terrain occluder on bookshelf in area A9, and set it to open for consistency with area A20.

CITADEL ALTAERIN BATTLEMENTS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Removed the terrain occluders altogether. Considered Zacchaeus aesthetic suggestion, but outside area has no purpose, so opted out of that.

CITADEL ALTAERIN VAULTS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Fixed missing wall sections next to secret door in area B1.
- Added missing terrain occluders in area B1, B7, B10 and B12.

GUARDIANS WAY
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Added border wall around the terrain.
- Removed walls for tree trunks.
- Added terrain occluders for all foilage.
- Revamped the platform terrain occluders as per Zacchaeus recommendations.

There is a leak problem on the Citadel Altaerin map, in the jail area. I beleave that is a bug which i have reported here.

QUESTION: Larger towns, like Breachill, should they also have occluders?
OBSERVATION 1: The terrain occluders on foilage in Guardians Way looks odd. Mostly cause they show up as clearly visible circles. Only way i can think of to remedy that is to handdraw the terrain occluders to match the trees.
OBSERVATION 2: The platform solutuion for Guardians Way works fine from ground, but when you climb them you can't see the ground. I know, that's how terrain occluders work, but it defeats the purpose of the guard platforms, since they are for keeping watch. I know, nitpicking.

[Zacchaeus]

Jolly Good, Allmight. I'll have a look tomorrow and if all is well I'll get the data into the module (somehow - I haven't figured that part out yet but it'll involve Trenloe I'm sure ).

Question: No, I don't think we need occluders on anything that isn't a battlemap; or that tokens aren't going to be moving around in, or even probably where no combat is going to take place.
Observation 1: Agreed, but once the token has reached level 1 the DM can 'open' the occluder just like they would a door and the ground will become visible again.
Observation 2: They do, and I think this probably depends on the colours used on the map. In some maps I've done it doesn't seen to show as much. FYI when I did the first few maps I was tracing the outline of the trees and if there's just a few this is fine; but once you get to a map with a freaking forest in it, it gets old quickly - so the circle is fine in my book.

[Allmight]

Jolly Good, Allmight. I'll have a look tomorrow and if all is well I'll get the data into the module (somehow - I haven't figured that part out yet but it'll involve Trenloe I'm sure ).

Hehe, yeah use Trenloe. He needs more work

I will probably have Cult of Cinders done by tomorow as well.

[Ascalon]

Is there nobody working on Rise Of Tiamat? I'd take on this one.