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  1. #121

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    It’s on his list to do for goodness sake. Remember, the ruleset was available day 1 of launch and he only got the final rules about 30 days before launch. He has said he will fix it! Give Trenloe and SW a little break.

  2. #122
    typo - reference manual - section: Animal companions and familiars

    Entry Badger: under Support Benefit: 3rd line: "difficult terrain" missing letters

    If I'm offending you Trenlo please let me know I thought this thread was in the spirit of working out the bugs and I'm only trying to help.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ckorik View Post
    typo - reference manual - section: Animal companions and familiars

    Entry Badger: under Support Benefit: 3rd line: "difficult terrain" missing letters
    Thanks for reporting. Fixed in the next release.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ckorik View Post
    If I'm offending you Trenlo please let me know I thought this thread was in the spirit of working out the bugs and I'm only trying to help.
    Not at all. I appreciate the bug spotting and feedback.
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert4818 View Post
    For both of these, I feel that the answer shouldn't be "there is a way to hack it in".

    I get that there are workarounds. However, a workaround creates confusion instead of clarity.

    I found a way to hack in my innate cantrip using one of the existing set-ups. But when trying to create my character it was confusing trying to decide which was the way to do it.

    The same with alchemy formulas. Just because there's a way to "push" it in, doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a natural place for it.
    As has been mentioned elsewhere, there are lots planned and there are only so many hours in the day. There was an incredibly tight timeline to get anything at all out for this on release, and we're playing catch up - and will be for months.

    I appreciate constructive feedback, and I also very much appreciate support and patience. When I give work arounds, it's to allow users to do stuff now, it is not necessarily the long term functionality goal.

    Having said that, you quote me about innate spells and saying they're a hack is completely inaccurate. That is the way to do it (any spells), add another spell section to your actions tab and fill it in. What is a hack about that? The fact that you have to spend 2 seconds adding a new spell section?

    So, to clarify the two ssues you mention - there will be something for formulas down the line. At present there is a way to do it that will allow you to track formulas, enter actions, attacks, damage, number prepared, etc.. Really the only thing that's missing here is the ability to drag/drop items into the formula slots. That will come - in the meantime do it manually. For most that's not a "hack" as you describe it.

    For innate spells, very little will change in the future from what it is now - it works fine, it's spells, and that's what that section on the actions tab was originally designed for.

    My final comment - if you're expecting Fantasy Grounds to be a 100% accurate character generator then you're sorely mistaken. FG aids in entering characters to play online - and I've worked hard to make that easier for people (I recommend you look at creating a character in the Pathfinder 1e ruleset and see how many advances have been made in PFRPG2). But the FG PFRPG2 ruleset will never automate all of the character creation - never. There are already over 800 feats - there's no way to realistically code for each eventuality of those feats, let alone all the many feats that will appear in future products. Not to mention all of the ancestries and heritages that will be coming out in future. I recommend you accept that you will always have to fine tune your PC manually in FG - know the rules (open up the reference manual and follow along in the relevant sections) and make sure your PC is correct and you have any automation/actions you want setup yourself.
    Last edited by Trenloe; August 11th, 2019 at 06:41.
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  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    As has been mentioned elsewhere, there are lots planned and there are only so many hours in the day. There was an incredibly tight timeline to get anything at all out for this on release, and we're playing catch up - and will be for months.

    I appreciate constructive feedback, and I also very much appreciate support and patience. When I give work arounds, it's to allow users to do stuff now, it is not necessarily the long term functionality goal.

    Having said that, you quote me about innate spells and saying they're a hack is completely inaccurate. That is the way to do it (any spells), add another spell section to your actions tab and fill it in. What is a hack about that? The fact that you have to spend 2 seconds adding a new spell section?

    So, to clarify the two ssues you mention - there will be something for formulas down the line. At present there is a way to do it that will allow you to track formulas, enter actions, attacks, damage, number prepared, etc.. Really the only thing that's missing here is the ability to drag/drop items into the formula slots. That will come - in the meantime do it manually. For most that's not a "hack" as you describe it.

    For innate spells, very little will change in the future from what it is now - it works fine, it's spells, and that's what that section on the actions tab was originally designed for.

    My final comment - if you're expecting Fantasy Grounds to be a 100% accurate character generator then you're sorely mistaken. FG aids in entering characters to play online - and I've worked hard to make that easier for people (I recommend you look at creating a character in the Pathfinder 1e ruleset and see how many advances have been made in PFRPG2). But the FG PFRPG2 ruleset will never automate all of the character creation - never. There are already over 800 feats - there's no way to realistically code for each eventuality of those feats, let alone all the many feats that will appear in future products. Not to mention all of the ancestries and heritages that will be coming out in future. I recommend you accept that you will always have to fine tune your PC manually in FG - know the rules (open up the reference manual and follow along in the relevant sections) and make sure your PC is correct and you have any automation/actions you want setup yourself.
    Let me explain my issue then. Let's assume that since the ruleset is very new, I am a new player, and new to creating characters in pathfinder.

    I've chosen to create a character with innate spellcasting, like a fey-touched gnome.

    I've looked up online how to add spells. So I go to the action tab to add a new spellcasting class. Now I go to the top left corner where the book icon is. I can click on it. It gives me two options: Spontaneous Spellcaster (sorcerer) and Prepared Spellcaster (Wizard). I'm new to the system, so I'm sitting here going I don't know where to put my innate spell, as I'm not an spontaneous or prepared spellcaster. MY magic is Innate. From a black box perspective, I don't know if that choice in the corner is important. All I know is that there's no obvious place to put my spell. Ok, I guess I'm close enough to a spontaneous caster, so why don't I just put it in there. I hope it doesn't cause me problems later.

    What I'm asking for is for that top right hand corner to simply have a 3rd Icon that says "Innate (Racial)". That way they don't feel confused, and spend their time trying to look for a spot that just doesn't exist.

  6. #126
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    We are all new to Pathfinder 2 - not just to Pathfinder 2 on Fantasy Grounds.
    Your final description was much clearer so lets see what comes of it.
    New eyes and new perspectives are always valuable one way or another.

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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert4818 View Post
    What I'm asking for is for that top right hand corner to simply have a 3rd Icon that says "Innate (Racial)". That way they don't feel confused, and spend their time trying to look for a spot that just doesn't exist.
    Thank you, that’s much clearer and helpful. Constructive, clear what you’re looking for and not antagonistic like your first approach to this issue.

    I’ll add it to the list of possible future changes.

    Thanks.
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  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Ckorik View Post
    Going to agree with the previous posters - the +++ is workable - but it would be super nice if they were in a *separate window* with even a checklist you could 'click' to validate to yourself that it was done
    Agreed as well.

    It does all the work to track the source of your abilities, and keep track of that even if you go back and change things during creation. This was important for PF2e since they distributed how you get abilities compared to legacy methods and you have to make sure each source is choosing unique abilities (tracker is useful for GMs to easily check your munchkin is not cheated) Not as simple as roll then bump for race.

    So this gives the expectation that it will also do that for skills because like abilities they also come from various sources. On some skills you have to track the source, for example it may say choose a skill at start and that skill will also train to master for free later on.

    So you end up using the notes page to track your skill assignments because you cannot even drag them into the tracker for it to record when you trained something, yet you do use the tracker to track your abilities. You cannot change the names on the skill page to something like Skill (Source) because you cannot edit the base skills, and if you add that skill with that name for tracking purposes then dragon link to the skill no longer works. So you end up doing lots of confusing flipping between your notes page and your skill page.

    It should really be renamed Ability Tracker if it is not in the design intent/capability for it to track skills. Because it is called Tracker people are expecting it to also be a Skill Tracker. A Skill Tracker would be very useful for GMs to double check how the skill monkey managed to get all the skills.
    Last edited by yarnevk; August 11th, 2019 at 21:20.

  9. #129

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    Trenloe has described his future intents. Not even 5e has this level of character creation tracking, so it is evolving. All your concerns are valid. But Trenloe will tweak this going forward as time and priorities permit. Hang in there. I guarantee he is listening.
    And Trenloe, forgive us for not taking the time to brag about all that you have accomplished. That is not the purpose of this thread but you know I think how much everyone appreciates all you have done to get us here.
    Last edited by Bidmaron; August 11th, 2019 at 21:28.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Bidmaron View Post
    And Trenloe, forgive us for not taking the time to brag about all that you have accomplished. That is not the purpose of this thread but you know I think how much everyone appreciates all you have done to get us here.
    I wholeheartedly agree! All of my work has been inspired and possible because of his efforts here! I made sure to add my appreciation in my acknowledgments for the Bestiary and the module I plan on throwing out here for people to have a little more content to toy around in.

    His dedication to this project has been impressive and the completed work has been top notch. We are lucky to have him here on PF2.
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