5e Bug Reports (Part 5)

[rob2e]

There is a room in the Acquisitions Incorporated adventure that is coded incorrectly. The room is the "Secret Basement" that is found on the "Players - Map 3.2 Lighthouse Basement" and the DM version as well. The pin for the room is labeled "04.30.04.06 Secret Basement." The pin contains the notes for the "Super-Secret Basement" instead of the "Secret Basement." In the physical book, the Secret Basement is covered on page 130-131. The pin skips over those and starts with the notes on page 132. The room should include a large read aloud passage, a parcel with Hoobur's items, and an encounter with Hoobur, Talanatha, Wizzy and a Kegbot.

I believe this has been fixed. After tomorrow (TUESDAY 1-7-20), please UPDATE your FG and then revert the A.I. module and check that again. If it is STILL in error, please let me know.

[Zacchaeus]

I think what has me bothered is that it's a symptom of the larger issue. There are a lot of different items that are likely not coded correctly (any variant armor/weapon types, plus magic items). On top of that, it sounds like the reason effects and other automation are not coded into the items is because of this problem as well. As a result, there is a whole secondary market of effect codings like Rob2e has made, simply to add the automation to things we bought. Nothing against Rob or anyone else making those items, they saw a need and they're filling it. But to me, those things should be included in the product. Not expecting anyone to read that and care, it's just MHO. Thanks for the perspective, I really do appreciate it.

No, the fact that things don't have effects attached has nothing to do with the way modules are constructed.

Included in the ruleset code is a parser which looks for certain words and phrases and then tries to create effects from that. So, for example, if the text of a spell or ability or whatever has the phrase 'and the target is paralyzed for 1 minute' then FG will recognise that phrase and create an effect of [Paralyzed][1 MIN] when that thing is dragged into the actions tab or if it's an NPC is put onto the Combat Tracker. This is true for pretty much everything, abilities, NPCs and spells.

Now this system generally works provided that the wording or phrases used are consistent. So, for example, in an NPC stat block the attack actions are almost always <type> Weapon Attack: +x to hit. Hit: ndn <type> damage. So FG can translate that into the necessary effects when the NPC is placed on the CT. Other examples include the skills choices for a class, saving throw types and damage from spells and many other things. All of these things generally are worded consistently. See the wiki here for more examples of what FG can pick out for NPCs specifically and this post for other things that FG can pick out of the wording used in backgrounds, classes and races.

A quick glance at magic items will tell you that there are a hundred ways that those are worded and each would need to have specific words looked for in order to create the effects. In the example we quoted earlier the Ring of Protection FG would need to interpret 'you get a +1 bonus to AC and saving throws whilst wearing this ring'. This is what I meant by automating everything given sufficient development time. This phrase and variations of this phrase would need to be programmed into FG so that the correct effect could be created - and only when the item is worn. You might find Celestian's extension here useful - you still need to create the effects yourself but it will apply the effect only if the item is equipped by the player.

I could be wrong here but I am pretty sure that FG doesn't look at the wording of items at all (apart from weapons and armour which are special cases); be they magic or otherwise simply because there is just too much uniqueness and variation in the wording to have any chance of creating proper effects.

As I said earlier the level of automation in 5e is unsurpassed although Celestian's 2e ruleset and Trenloe's Pathfinder 2 ruleset are very close rivals (and Starfinder is catching up too I think), but currently it is too much to ask that everything be automated given the hours that would need to be put into it in order to achieve that level.

[HuseyinCinar]

Nothing against Rob or anyone else making those items, they saw a need and they're filling it. But to me, those things should be included in the product.

It irks me that the spells can be coded (as seen from his modules) but are not in the official product.

But Zacc is already taking on so much that I can't "blame" him. The guy works 24/7. I am grateful for everything he does!

And apparently it's more of a problem with the system in place and not neglection. I wish SmiteWorks could hire a couple more people to focus on stuff like these.

[Zacchaeus]

I wish SmiteWorks could hire a couple more people to focus on stuff like these.

They hired two new ruleset developers a couple of months ago. One is working on the Starfinder ship combat and the other is working on a secret project that I can't tell you about. But the staff has increased so there's no reason to be irked

[HuseyinCinar]

Yeah I saw the job postings and am very glad SW is growing

Wish the job wasn't US specific but I understand it's because of tax reasons.

[Neovirtus]

Cool, that's all great info, and I'm glad this issue isn't limiting the automation. I agree that the language parsing and automation that does exist is spectacular, and is one of the biggest selling points of FG to me. Simply put, as HuseyinCinar said, it's disappointing that some of the coding that is clearly possible doesn't make it into the official product, but that is clearly a topic of conversation worthy of a thread of it's own, and I'll stop monopolizing this one . I just wanted to put in my 2c that I think the issue is worthy of discussion and further inspection. As much as I hate to be one of "those people" on the forums, I (and we all) want FG to be as incredibly awesome as possible. I think it's already great, FGU is going to make it amazing, and I can't wait to see what special projects are going on behind the scenes. The squeaky wheel gets the grease though, and I think this spot needs greasing . Despite the fact that I clearly don't know a whole lot about how the sausage gets made, I had noticed issues like this in the past and wanted to chime in that I thought it was worth fixing. If nothing else, I'll be happy to know that the next time it comes up, it will no longer be the case that "it's never been a problem before."

Thanks very much for your thoughtful responses! They are much appreciated.

[Roach]

I'm wondering: if SW is adapting official modules, are they even allowed to make those changes so that the text is parsable? The rulesets and adventures have to follow quite strict rules to get the license...

[Zacchaeus]

I'm wondering: if SW is adapting official modules, are they even allowed to make those changes so that the text is parsable? The rulesets and adventures have to follow quite strict rules to get the license...

I make slight changes to the wording of creature stat blocks all the time so that effects will be picked up on the CT. But it’s not so much the wording as creating the parser to pick up the meaning.

[LordEntrails]

As suggested by another earlier, I've started a new thread to discuss Ruleset Automation. Please continue discussion there so this thread can get back to bug reports

[LordEntrails]

Waterdeep: Dragon Heist

Xanathar (NPC)
Xanathar is listed as having 3 rings, but only the effects/benefits of 1 of them are added to his traits (Mind Shielding). Shouldn't their be traits for Invisibility? (I see Resist Force is already applied via Resistances)

Also, Lair ACtions, the Surface Eye trait's last sentence "Xanathar can't repeat... in a row." should be in the "Option" trait as it applies to all options, not just Surface Eye.