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  1. #791
    Quote Originally Posted by Zacchaeus View Post
    I don't think the problem is sharing the campaign. What groups with rotating DM want is to just have one person buy a license and the DLC and everyone is able to share that license and DLC no matter who is hosting the game. Therefore 6 people buy one Ultimate License and one PHB instead of 6 Standard Licenses and 6 PHB's.
    I do not understand the intentions to purposely try to get around the licenses model. Smite Works has taken the time to develop a tool that we all can use, no matter where we are in the world. Why wouldn't the community want to pay for that service? It is not even that much money in the scheme of things. Honestly, if you take and apply a dollar value to the number of hours you spend in the VTT, it pays for itself in no time. When I see people complaining about the price, I scratch my head in confusion. Personally, I think their licensing price is very, very generous - for what they have given us, it is worth more. If all those who are complaining and attempting to get around the licensing model sat down and calculated how much money they have spent on games for a computer or console, that they have spent, and played (beat), and most likely are collecting dust on their shelves, that would be something to complain about.

    This is a standard price on something that is yours, that you can use every weekend (in my case), without interruption, and anywhere you have a digital footprint. I have used mine in the middle of a combat zone on "down time". I play every weekend with friends I have met throughout the world.

    To me, that is Priceless and worth every penny spent.

    Which is my I am scratching my head at people who are complaining about the price or trying to share licenses?

    If we do the math:

    $1,000 (Kickstarter - What I chose to support - A high end choice) / 12 Months = $83.33 a month
    $83.33 / 4 Weeks (Weekly login) = $20.83
    $20.83 / 8 Hours (Game Session on Saturday) = $2.60

    That means I am paying $2.60 an hour to play a game that I love, with friends I enjoying spending time with.

    Once again, just an example of what I chose to support - at the high end - not pointing fingers, just using my own logic to find a reason for the complaints.

    To me, it is well worth the $2.60 an hour.

    If you want to do the math on the proposed pricing model - today, Smite Works is practically giving you an amazing tool for practically nothing.

    I think they should charge us more, personally.
    Fantasy Grounds Unity Kickstarter - Ultimate Game Master - Party Edition - I am number 2 of 100.

  2. #792
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    Everyone has different levels of expendable income that they can dedicate to the hobby. A lot of people also don't play every week. Or they've already spent money on a physical PHB, D&D Beyond, etc. and they struggle to justify buying the same again (potentially 6 times across a rotating group of players and GMs). It's an understandable "complaint" for some people. We're also in an environment of free or very inexpensive apps (that then hit you with adverts or micro transactions to make their money), where spending more than a couple of dollars for an "app" is against the norm. We know how advanced FG is, and the many thousands of hours that have gone into development, but people purchasing something for the first time and see the (potentially) high level of investment can seem off putting - especially if they're expecting a much less feature rich and in depth application than Fantasy Grounds actually is (based off experience of other apps/purchase models).

    Hopefully most people will look past the initial costs and realise, if they're going to use FG for a while, that it's very worthwhile and will hopefully fit within their long term gaming budget. But there will always be some instances where it might not be financially viable (like the 6 player/GM rotating group mentioned) and they need to make the decision of whether the cost vs. advantages of FG is worthwhile for them.
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  3. #793
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    Everyone has different levels of expendable income that they can dedicate to the hobby. A lot of people also don't play every week. Or they've already spent money on a physical PHB, D&D Beyond, etc. and they struggle to justify buying the same again (potentially 6 times across a rotating group of players and GMs). It's an understandable "complaint" for some people. We're also in an environment of free or very inexpensive apps (that then hit you with adverts or micro transactions to make their money), where spending more than a couple of dollars for an "app" is against the norm. We know how advanced FG is, and the many thousands of hours that have gone into development, but people purchasing something for the first time and see the (potentially) high level of investment can seem off putting - especially if they're expecting a much less feature rich and in depth application than Fantasy Grounds actually is (based off experience of other apps/purchase models).

    Hopefully most people will look past the initial costs and realise, if they're going to use FG for a while, that it's very worthwhile and will hopefully fit within their long term gaming budget. But there will always be some instances where it might not be financially viable (like the 6 player/GM rotating group mentioned) and they need to make the decision of whether the cost vs. advantages of FG is worthwhile for them.
    I see.

    You bring up some valid points.

    I guess I see things differently than most people.

    I do see your point though - even if I don't agree.

    Thanks for taking the time to respond.
    Fantasy Grounds Unity Kickstarter - Ultimate Game Master - Party Edition - I am number 2 of 100.

  4. #794
    JohnD's Avatar
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    When I stopped tracking this my cost/hour using FG was just under $0.24. That's over 7+ years and around $1700 in licensing and DLC. Entirely worth it.
    DMing since 1979. Ultimate License holder.

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    Thanks for 8+ years of gaming via FG my friends (AD&D 2e / 3.5e / Rolemaster Classic / Castles & Crusades / Pathfinder / Savage Worlds / 5e).

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  5. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD View Post
    When I stopped tracking this my cost/hour using FG was just under $0.24. That's over 7+ years and around $1700 in licensing and DLC. Entirely worth it.
    Exactly my point!

    Thank you for re-enforcing it.

    Practically nothing...
    Fantasy Grounds Unity Kickstarter - Ultimate Game Master - Party Edition - I am number 2 of 100.

  6. #796
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pantherin View Post
    I see.

    You bring up some valid points.

    I guess I see things differently than most people.

    I do see your point though - even if I don't agree.

    Thanks for taking the time to respond.
    To be completely clear - I 100% support SmiteWorks pricing and licensing model. I just think that we should not look at just our own situation and should try to see things from all angles. If someone says "to do what I want in Fantasy Grounds is too expensive for me and my group", all we can do is point out the average game costs over time and let them make their own decision as to what is too expensive for them or not. I don't have the right to judge what is "too expensive" for other people, only what is too expensive for me. It's perfectly within people's rights to ask for a change in the model to better fit their requirements - SmiteWorks can review that request and decide what they want/can do based off their licensing restrictions and long term vision. For example, the subscription license came along relatively recently due to people saying the cost of entry was "too expensive" and wanting alternatives.
    FG Con 16 Fantasy Grounds Online RPG Convention - Postponed New date To Be Confirmed.
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  7. #797
    Also add on the issues of regional pricing and currency conversions...
    Paul Grosse
    PCGen BoD
    PR Silverback

  8. #798
    This whole "shared gm license" is just a thinly veiled attempt to get something for nothing (or practically nothing). I'm not fooled, the folks proposing it aren't fooled, and I'm sure that SW isn't fooled.

    What was once a hobby that was shared locally has now become a global, and that means that the potential for abuse increases proportionally. SW needs to take care that all of a sudden we don't have "GM swapping groups", that include GMs in the East Coast US, West Coast US, Brazil, Japan, Norway, Australia, Russia, etc. all "conveniently" only playing in their local time zone for the majority of the time (perhaps with a token login every blue moon).

    Every dollar that SW loses to this sort of chicanery is a dollar that is not being spent on improving the experience for everyone else.

  9. #799
    Zacchaeus's Avatar
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    I think people are looking at that functionality (shared GMs) in Roll20 and saying we want this in FG as well.

    But Trenloe is absolutely right; whatever we personally might think of the pricing it is not for us to judge whether that's affordable for others. And whilst there would be people who would abuse it if it were possible there are genuine groups out there that do rotate DMs on a regular basis and if they were doing so at the table top one copy of the PHB would be all they needed.
    If there is something that you would like to see in Fantasy Grounds that isn't currently part of the software or if there is something you think would improve a ruleset then add your idea to the wish list http://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

  10. #800
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Let's not getting into assigning or assuming motives of other people. That's a downward slope and all with little to no benefits.

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