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  1. #1

    Very disappointed in Fantasy Grounds User Interface

    Good user interfaces (UI) should present users with affordances that allow them to learn how to use the software without having to read an instruction manual or watch a youtube video. Good user interfaces should be designed to help guide the end user. It should help them discover what options are available and allow them to make a choice from said options.

    I'm a new user to Fantasy Grounds (FG) and just picked up some D&D books, but I'm seriously considering returning everything!

    FG user interface and design philosophy is from the 80's or worse. It does little to nothing to help you discover anything and forces the end user to know which books data is contained. The select and drag concept is really not a great concept as a whole and severely reduces a users ability to discover options.

    Coming from DND Beyond (which has very good user interfaces and actually helps you discover what options a character has available to them) Fantasy grounds is almost the polar opposite. Please tell me this is the "old" version and that you have plans to update Fantasy Grounds to a modern user interface and design philosophy?

  2. #2
    Once loaded, all of your data is available in the campaign lists located in the sidebar of the tabletop. You can change which buttons are available in the sidebar via the Library.

    One clarification is that Fantasy Grounds is not a full-fledged character management tool, like others out there (such as D&D Beyond); but does provide some basic character generation via drag and drop. There are some great character management tools out there already, such as Hero Lab, PCGen and D&D Beyond that you can use.

    Regards,
    JPG

  3. #3
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    I will say, that as a user, if you don't want to put any effort into Learning FG, you will struggle with it. Their is information on the forums here (where we always encourage people to review current resources, but are always willing to answer questions), their are very active Discord servers (including the official one and the free FG College servers), their are numerous getting started videos, and their is the user manual.

    One can discuss benefits of various UI approaches, but the one thing for certain, no approach is right for every person.

    My advice, use the resources that are available to shorten your learning curve. Don't waste your time and energy fighting what's not natural for you, but learn to use it to the fullest what's there. IMO, you will find it a very valuable program.

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  4. #4

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    Welcome to FG and the forums and our little community!

    Yes, the UI is problematic. We know. They know. The software can do a lot of things, but many of those things are hidden away behind secretive key controls which may or may not be documented. Hope you stick around and open yourself to learning FG's wonky way of doing things, but also, absolutely feel free to make commentary like this. Post Unity, I can only hope more such commentary will push the team to restructure the UI into something modern and usable that doesn't require the level of WTF-ness we currently have to overcome.

    I know the UI isn't their fault, it's an inherited mess. But it's one they can choose to do something about at some point, too.

  5. #5
    Thanks LordEntrails. I'm not giving up yet (I have 30 days) and do plan to put in some substantial effort into learning.

    As a designer and professional developer of games, I'm going to have to disagree on idea that there is 'various approaches', there are clearly best practices and providing affordances so the end user can easily learn how to use a tool/software without having to watch videos and or read an instruction manual. Games on a whole have to teach a player how to play them all the while entertaining them and make things intuitive both from gameplay/controls/design aspect as well as the user interface. Fantasy Grounds could use a massive overhaul in this department.

    To put it in RPG terms Champions Vs D&D, one is easy to learn and easy to play. The other requires a great deal more investment/learning. I'm not against learning and putting an investment in, but it should _not_ be this hard.

    Moon Wizard, Fantasy Grounds with purchased books IMO should be a full-fledged character management tool like DND Beyond, otherwise why am I paying for books I already own both physically (and digitally with DND Beyond) for the 3rd time? Do you have any suggestions for incorporating a hybrid of FG and DND Beyond into a game?
    Last edited by Jaradakar; August 10th, 2018 at 21:46.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Talyn View Post
    Welcome to FG and the forums and our little community!

    Yes, the UI is problematic. We know. They know. The software can do a lot of things, but many of those things are hidden away behind secretive key controls which may or may not be documented. Hope you stick around and open yourself to learning FG's wonky way of doing things, but also, absolutely feel free to make commentary like this. Post Unity, I can only hope more such commentary will push the team to restructure the UI into something modern and usable that doesn't require the level of WTF-ness we currently have to overcome.

    I know the UI isn't their fault, it's an inherited mess. But it's one they can choose to do something about at some point, too.
    Yes! Thank you Talyn! So fill me in, are we on the Unity version? Or is this still legacy? I think, if they would spend multiple sprints purely addressing UI/Usability they could end up with a product that would be much easier to use and that would ultimately translate to more people using it (which would then turn into more sales).

  7. #7

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    I like the interface.

  8. #8
    Zacchaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaradakar View Post
    Yes! Thank you Talyn! So fill me in, are we on the Unity version? Or is this still legacy? I think, if they would spend multiple sprints purely addressing UI/Usability they could end up with a product that would be much easier to use and that would ultimately translate to more people using it (which would then turn into more sales).
    Unity is still on the horizon but is getting closer. More information here. We have no details on whether the interface will be radically different since the new version has to be compatible with years of DLC. However we do expect some changes. I doubt that certainly at initial release there will be a fully fledged character builder. That's a whole new application which would require recoding from the ground up. Again however the interface and level of automation is improving all the time as is evidenced by the new Pathfinder 2 ruleset currently in development.
    If there is something that you would like to see in Fantasy Grounds that isn't currently part of the software or if there is something you think would improve a ruleset then add your idea here https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featu...rerequests.php

  9. #9
    Zacchaeus, Thanks for the update! I'll check that thread out. Also if automation, interface and affordances are improving, that is also a good sign. Thank you.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaradakar View Post
    Thanks LordEntrails. I'm not giving up yet (I have 30 days) and do plan to put in some substantial effort into learning.

    As a designer and professional developer of games, I'm going to have to disagree on idea that there is 'various approaches', there are clearly best practices and providing affordances so the end user can easily learn how to use a tool/software without having to watch videos and or read an instruction manual. Games on a whole have to teach a player how to play them all the while entertaining them and make things intuitive both from gameplay/controls/design aspect as well as the user interface. Fantasy Grounds could use a massive overhaul in this department.

    To put it in RPG terms Champions Vs D&D, one is easy to learn and easy to play. The other requires a great deal more investment/learning. I'm not against learning and putting an investment in, but it should _not_ be this hard.

    Moon Wizard, Fantasy Grounds with purchased books IMO should be a full-fledged character management tool like DND Beyond, otherwise, why am I paying for books I already own both physically (and digitally with DND Beyond) for the 3rd time? Do you have any suggestions for incorporating a hybrid of FG and DND Beyond into a game?
    Not to nitpick but this struck me as somewhat odd, I could see if someone was not computer savvy or did not work in IT, being totally flummoxed by the Fantasy Grounds User Interface. Again, YMMV but trying to compare FG to DDB is apples and oranges, FG is a Virtual Table-top application and the other is a Web/Cloud-based portal/resource. While the official game content and resources are identical as can be expected, Fantasy Grounds is not globally searchable via search engine like DDB. There are more than several ways to go about character creation in FG, pre-gen characters, random pc generators and tables, manual creation, etc. Personally, I found Fantasy Grounds College giving classes which staff will teach hands-on and step by step to be immensely helpful, particularly to those of us either new to FG, D&D (any TTRPG), or both.
    (Zacchaeus beat me to it! :P) Any suggestions, ideas and feedback for new and upcoming Fantasy Grounds Unity should look into the following thread.
    https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...light=FG+Unity

    ### These links contain what I consider the quickest and best way to learn Fantasy Grounds and play D&D.
    https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...-and-then-play!
    https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...ul-information

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