Change My Mind: Invest in FG, need top 5e capability but also OSR/ShadowofDemonLord

[Gray Geist]

Yep $10 for CnC gives you everything you need to play.
The other stuff might be useful depending on where you go with it but as you are looking to play LotFP I dont think there is value in the others at this time for you.

Got it, yeah C&C would act as the base to the AD&D community module ( https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...-amp-D-Ruleset ) right? I'm over on that forum trying to figure out how useable that module is for Lamentations.

Add all your own content. Tokens, maps, story, adventure.
For a long time the DLC list on FG was very short. Today it is long and getting longer AND the options for adding your own content have gotten better and better.
Win, win, win.

I see, so with tokens and such is there an ample community out there that makes "cool" ones and are they easy to integrate into FG? I.e. You find an awesome token but for whatever reason you want it smaller/bigger on the FG map? The DLC list expanding is awesome to hear!

I spent 3 years in roll20 and most of that was on their premium sub. It was a good product for what it was. But when it comes to running games fantasygrounds has it beaten out in most angles.
I do keep up to date with Roll20 and use it to play numenera/the strange at the moment.

As a Platform
Fantasygrounds wins out for me, the client server structure is far more responsive than a browser tab. Especially after running a complex Roll20 campaign for a few months everything starts to get a half a second delay.
I have had a few technical hickups over the last two years of using fantasygrounds, but nothing to really speak of and honestly it was more of a user issue than program issue.

Fifth Edition D&D
Fantasygrounds again, by a mile and more. Roll20 is far more robust than it was when I first started using it. And a part of me used to love fixing the shaped sheet up and creating macros. But the automation in fantasygrounds, the organisation of the story panel and perhapse most importantly the Combat tracker and character creation. All of this is head and shoulders above Roll20.
I use fantasygrounds in person because it speeds up my book keeping that much. It is an actual tool where roll20 is something I would never use at a table as even with the advancements it has made it doesn't make anything notably easier.

Learning Curve
Roll20 if you don't want to learn anything and just use it to roll digital dice.
Fantasygrounds if you are happy learning basic things like "control clicking tokens or portraits in the combat tracker allows you to select targets, you can then fire off a fireball having it make all the relevant dexterity saves at once, roll damage straight afterwards and have it automatically apply half to those that succeed their throws"

Mapping/Drawing tools
Roll20, fantasygrounds drawing tools are awful. Heck I made custom blank paper images so that I could see the thin and aliased scratchy lines in fantasygrounds. There aren't background layer options for tokens either so populating a map can be problematic at times.
It works, but roll20 is better and offers line width and colour options. FGU should support more options, and if it doesn't I am going to kick up a fuss until it does :P

Customisation
Fantasygrounds, I was heavily invested in the shaped sheet back in the day on roll20 (even after the official 5e sheet came out). But nothing on roll20 compares to fantasyground's levels of customisation.
I mean just today I made my first extension which allows people to roll with advantage when they hold control and disadvantage when they hold alt. (mainly for DMs but it speeds things up considerably)

Cost
Fantasygrounds, the books are cheaper and being able to buy outright is great... And even if you go for the subscription here it is still cheaper.

Conclusion
I am glossing over a lot of things like how useful the story panel is, the reference guides and so on. And they are huge boons to a DM.
But ultimately I see it like this-

- Go with Roll20 if you aren't looking for more tools and merely want to use the program for some light automation and treat it like a digital tabletop extension rather than a tool. Making it do more felt like I was fighting against myself every other week.

- Go with Fantasygrounds if you are keen on how many power user options it can give a DM, or if you want to run games completely digitally without having to rely on paper or books at the table.
Also if you run a lot of combat, because even without learning much the combat tracker is just leagues above anything Roll20 has.

This is all great to hear from a user and it seems fan (in ways) of roll20. Every one here has been extremely fair on roll20 and describing it and I appreciate that.

I definitely want to reduce the amount of "static" during play and that includes being able to utilize power options such as strong automation and basic cool controls like you highlighted.

Can you dive into the Mapping/Drawing Tool issues you want improved? Are you just trying to perfect the system here or is it truly a major weakness (in your opinion)?

The only thing I'm still on the wall about is the ability to use Lamentations on FG effectively but by "on the wall" I mean, I'm 100% sure FG is the right choice for 5e and also 100% sure I could use MoreCore or the AD&D community module to get to Lamentations 90% of the way and then ask for help from the community but I just worry that because of my lack of experience at all I'd be asking too much ya know?

[JohnD]

For tokens, use Token Tool, Pinterest or a Google search for pictures and make your own. It doesn't take long and then you always have something relatively unique about the appearance of your game.

[LordEntrails]

I see, so with tokens and such is there an ample community out there that makes "cool" ones and are they easy to integrate into FG? I.e. You find an awesome token but for whatever reason you want it smaller/bigger on the FG map? The DLC list expanding is awesome to hear!

Tokens are easy to add. I use TokenTool to create tokens from any image I want, then I just drop the image into the right folder and I have a token. You can create your own modules of tokens as well (there is a post with instruction son how to do this, very simple). Then you can drag the onto a PC token window or onto an NPC to have them use that token. Or you can just drag the token to the map to use as something like a spell effect etc.

Scaling, you can turn on automatic token scaling, then when you drop a PC/NPC onto the map, it will scale them to the appropriate number of squares (assuming your map has an FG grid on it) (times a percentage, defaults to 85%, but can be set by the GM). Otherwise the token will be at the same scale as the map. But, tokens can be re-scaled with the mouse wheel and scales can be locked etc.

Can you dive into the Mapping/Drawing Tool issues you want improved? Are you just trying to perfect the system here or is it truly a major weakness (in your opinion)?

Sure, Don't try to create a map in FG. It sucks *G* The in built tools are basically a free hand pen of a single pixel thickness. Controlling the color is cumbersome (it takes it from your character color that is generally set to be the die color for that character. You can draw circles, cones, and squares.

Using the community layers extension, you can place map tiles (i.e. tokens) and build a map from those tiles and then adding other tokens on the middle layer that represent trees, furniture, etc.

Another way you can do it, is simply drop in a blank or just background image of the total map size. Add an FG grid to it. Then add it to FG. Then you can open the map in your mapping/image program and update it as you want, save it and reload it in FG to see the updates/changes.

[Trenloe]

Yep, FG only has black line drawing for freehand maps. For maps look for pre-built maps in JPG image form (convert them if they’re not JPG). There are thousands upon thousands of maps out there, lots in the FG forums, and maps in product PDFs that can usually be extracted from a PDF for use in FG. Commercial FG products come with maps from the original material.

I don’t remember the last time I used a freehand drawing tool for a FG map - many years ago...

[Ken L]

This is all great to hear from a user and it seems fan (in ways) of roll20. Every one here has been extremely fair on roll20 and describing it and I appreciate that.

You're not allowed to talk about other platforms on Roll20, they delete, mute, and lock topics. It's like food in a movie theater. You're only allowed to talk about roll20 on thier board which is their right I suppose, but you're not allowed to do comparisons.

[lostsanityreturned]

This is all great to hear from a user and it seems fan (in ways) of roll20. Every one here has been extremely fair on roll20 and describing it and I appreciate that.

I definitely want to reduce the amount of "static" during play and that includes being able to utilize power options such as strong automation and basic cool controls like you highlighted.

Can you dive into the Mapping/Drawing Tool issues you want improved? Are you just trying to perfect the system here or is it truly a major weakness (in your opinion)?

The only thing I'm still on the wall about is the ability to use Lamentations on FG effectively but by "on the wall" I mean, I'm 100% sure FG is the right choice for 5e and also 100% sure I could use MoreCore or the AD&D community module to get to Lamentations 90% of the way and then ask for help from the community but I just worry that because of my lack of experience at all I'd be asking too much ya know?

The drawing tool is really bad in fg... i use it all the time because of players being players... but it is just rudimentary and ugly.
Even erasing sections is a hassle as it uses a filled lasoo...

It works, roll 20 just does it better and faster.

Ideally i want line thickness, a traditional eraser, fill tool (maybe with hatching) background layer, colors, line thickness, straight lines, curved lines, shapes. Maybe even some line styles.
All of that together would make it better than roll20 though.

I cannot speak for thr other rule sets. If they aren't automated on roll20 they are likely as easy as each other to play. If they are on roll20, see if the sheet is free and just use roll20 for that system and fg for 5e.

I cannot stress enough how good fg is for 5e once you become acclimated. It took me around a month before I had really gotten a grasp on things.
Documentation is pretty sketchy at times.

Look to the complete class effect packages to get a start on further optimising automation.

[Maasq]

Hiya

I'll jump in with a couple of points here, one of which will look like a blatant plug but I don't really intend it as such

1. I use Token Stamp for all my token needs... https://rolladvantage.com/tokenstamp/ - more on tokens for NPCs/monsters later in the 'plug', though.

2. Draw your maps with a dedicated program and then drag them into FG. It is one of the joys of the client-server setup - you can plop resources where you want them on your machine ahead of time, and so you can do things like mapwork at your leisure. There are many pieces of map making software, but the one I like is Dungeon Painter Studio (a few pounds/dollars from Steam). It is simple and produces maps that are eminently usable.

3. You said you did a lot of homebrew, so you'll want to look into how easy it is to get your creations into your chosen VTT. Adding one monster may not be taxing in either, but adding several can be onerous. For 5E, I have created a couple of programs (NPC Engineer and Spell Engineer; more to come in the series!) that simplify this process. There's even a filter to help import NPCs written for Roll20 It has to be pointed out that this is strictly Windows and 5E - if you use a Mac, you're out of luck; also, it won't help with the other systems you're exploring. If this does interest you, though, it is worth noting that you can add an image and token for each NPC and the creation of a module puts everything in the correct place for you.

Now I know this looks like a plug, but to be honest I mean it in a more general way. You'll find this community to be creative, and immensely supportive. I'm far from the only one who has created something for it, and I have benefited hugely from the knowledge of others on here and on Discord. If I can be any further help to you, don't hesitate to give me a shout on Discord!

Maasq

[LordEntrails]

Hiya

I'll jump in with a couple of points here, one of which will look like a blatant plug but I don't really intend it as such
...

Now I know this looks like a plug, but to be honest I mean it in a more general way. You'll find this community to be creative, and immensely supportive. I'm far from the only one who has created something for it, and I have benefited hugely from the knowledge of others on here and on Discord. If I can be any further help to you, don't hesitate to give me a shout on Discord!

Maasq

PLUG! PLUG! PLUG!

Hey, you deserve recognition for your work. And it's not something you charge for. And it does it's job, so it only makes sense that you mention it!

[madman]

I have opened the 5E ruleset like 5 times to try to get an extension to work in another ruleset. That being said Maasq has done great things here (Thank You) Ken L, Same goes for you. And Trenloe that goes for you also. This Group of people are the bomb.

Madman..

[Gray Geist]

The drawing tool is really bad in fg... i use it all the time because of players being players... but it is just rudimentary and ugly.
Even erasing sections is a hassle as it uses a filled lasoo...

It works, roll 20 just does it better and faster.

Ideally i want line thickness, a traditional eraser, fill tool (maybe with hatching) background layer, colors, line thickness, straight lines, curved lines, shapes. Maybe even some line styles.
All of that together would make it better than roll20 though.

I cannot speak for thr other rule sets. If they aren't automated on roll20 they are likely as easy as each other to play. If they are on roll20, see if the sheet is free and just use roll20 for that system and fg for 5e.

I cannot stress enough how good fg is for 5e once you become acclimated. It took me around a month before I had really gotten a grasp on things.
Documentation is pretty sketchy at times.

Look to the complete class effect packages to get a start on further optimising automation.

Ahhh I got it, well that won't be a problem - or well, it'll be a small problem

Hiya

I'll jump in with a couple of points here, one of which will look like a blatant plug but I don't really intend it as such

1. I use Token Stamp for all my token needs... https://rolladvantage.com/tokenstamp/ - more on tokens for NPCs/monsters later in the 'plug', though.

2. Draw your maps with a dedicated program and then drag them into FG. It is one of the joys of the client-server setup - you can plop resources where you want them on your machine ahead of time, and so you can do things like mapwork at your leisure. There are many pieces of map making software, but the one I like is Dungeon Painter Studio (a few pounds/dollars from Steam). It is simple and produces maps that are eminently usable.

3. You said you did a lot of homebrew, so you'll want to look into how easy it is to get your creations into your chosen VTT. Adding one monster may not be taxing in either, but adding several can be onerous. For 5E, I have created a couple of programs (NPC Engineer and Spell Engineer; more to come in the series!) that simplify this process. There's even a filter to help import NPCs written for Roll20 It has to be pointed out that this is strictly Windows and 5E - if you use a Mac, you're out of luck; also, it won't help with the other systems you're exploring. If this does interest you, though, it is worth noting that you can add an image and token for each NPC and the creation of a module puts everything in the correct place for you.

Now I know this looks like a plug, but to be honest I mean it in a more general way. You'll find this community to be creative, and immensely supportive. I'm far from the only one who has created something for it, and I have benefited hugely from the knowledge of others on here and on Discord. If I can be any further help to you, don't hesitate to give me a shout on Discord!

Maasq

Thanks for the reply and info!

What is this you say a way to create my homebrew monsters and import them easily in FG? No seriously - is that what you're saying because that's incredible. One of the most attractive things about 5e is the size of the community and if you have say 100 homebrews come out of them, maybe 50 are sub standard, but the other 50 are good, 10 of which are superb works so this is very cool! You have NPC/Monster and Spell engineer but what about homebrew items on FG?

I have opened the 5E ruleset like 5 times to try to get an extension to work in another ruleset. That being said Maasq has done great things here (Thank You) Ken L, Same goes for you. And Trenloe that goes for you also. This Group of people are the bomb.

Madman..

Yeah I'll tell ya right now, you guys are true salesmen and saleswomen without even trying...which is awesome. I am absolutely going to move with Fantasy Grounds which brings me to the final questions related primarily to 5e but it could possible be applied overall to community rulesets/modules...

Final Questions

1. When purchasing the Ultimate License, this does mean that my players need not purchase anything on their own correct? I ask because they will be splitting the price with me and I will cover add-ons/DLC at my own expense.
2. If the above is true, do the players just download Fantasy Grounds for free somehow and then join my game and have all the capabilities they need?
3. Will my players be able to save their character sheets and/or notes and all the "player stuff" on their computers or is that all stored on my computer via my Ultimate License and then pushed to them whenever we next resume the game?
4. In the same theme as the above question, would my players be able to work on their 5E character sheets without being connected to me?
5. Are there any limitations I'm not thinking of via the Ultimate License for myself or my players?

Very pumped to begin this journey!