3.5 rules questions

[Cypher]

In general, touch spells are rarely worth the risk.

Even if you cast out of range of the target, then hold the charge until the next round to move in and touch the target. You've still only cast a single spell in 2 rounds, and left yourself at the mercy of your target after your touch attempt. This could be bad if you either A. miss your touch, B. target makes their save, or C. the effect isn't nasty enough to do some serious damage to your opponent.

If you had spring attack you could make better use of touch spells, but even then you're still only casting one spell every two turns. Usually a better option to just light em up from a distance.

To bypass the restrictions of the touch spell you can invest in:
* Feat: Reach Spell (Complete Divine)
* PrC Archmage: Arcane Reach (DMG)
* PrC Hierophant: Divine Reach (DMG)

That is definately the crunchy solution so you make the call.

[kalmarjan]

You are missing the point of my post here guys.

if by "Completing a touch spell" you mean the act of touching, then this does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You are attacking with this.

The best way to do this is to have the spell caster say, six squares away, cast the spell, then move in and make a touch attack. This allieviates the whole, 5 foot step move back. Note: a touch spell charge can be held for over one round. If the person could not make the move and attack, he could save it for the next round, and make the touch attack.

If you are chancing the AOO for your character to make a touch spell, you are not really playing your character smart. Or, you need to have a lot of buffs to make this happen. (Mage armor, ring of protection, etc...)

Sandeman
Note: Some familiars can deliver the touch spell for you, making this whole issue a moot point. I once had an NPC spell caster use his lowly hopping frog to cast the touch spells on the party...

[ghedrain]

Note: Some familiars can deliver the touch spell for you, making this whole issue a moot point. I once had an NPC spell caster use his lowly hopping frog to cast the touch spells on the party...

that would make me laugh

[richvalle]

Or use that mage hand/ghost hand spell to cast touch spells from a distance... while under an improved inviso spell.

I've used touch spells as a cleric to cast cure wounds spells on undead.

rv

[kalmarjan]

Also, just thought of something:

Why use a touch spell? They are not worth it? Consider this:

A harm spell is a level 6 spell that deals 10 points of damage per caster level to the creature touched. (Save for half). On a 13th level caster, you are looking at 130 points. To top that off, there is a chance of criticalling with this touch attack! Sinse you only get a size bonus, dex bonus and a deflection bonus to AC, this makes for a pretty straightforward hit. The same number is used to determine the critical success.

If the monster saves for half damage from the above, if the caster scored a critical hit, it would still deal them 130 points of damage. (Or drop the creature down to 1 HP)

All this for a spell that takes a standard action to cast.

If I was the player, knowing that I was going to be going into battle, I would have cast this spell and held the charge until the right time. If I was already in battle, then would be the time to get to higher ground to cast the spell, then wade into the fray armed with this spell.

In no circumstanses would I have this character in the "front lines" engaging the enemy! If one of them scored a lucky hit, well, even with toughness and a good con bonus, and max HP, the character would have around 93 HP.

Two lucky attacks, and kiss the character goodbye.

Sandeman

[Cypher]

Also, just thought of something:

Why use a touch spell? They are not worth it? Consider this:

A harm spell is a level 6 spell that deals 10 points of damage per caster level to the creature touched. (Save for half). On a 13th level caster, you are looking at 130 points. To top that off, there is a chance of criticalling with this touch attack! Sinse you only get a size bonus, dex bonus and a deflection bonus to AC, this makes for a pretty straightforward hit. The same number is used to determine the critical success.

I did say "in general", and your example is citing a cleric spell. Cleric's aren't nearly at the same disadvantage using touch spells as wizards are. Different animal.

If we're talking about offensive Wizard/Sorcerer touch spells, the short list from the PHB include the following (spell level in brackets):

Touch of Fatigue (0), Bestow Curse (4), Ghoul Touch (2), Imprisonment (9), Temporal Stasis (8), Chill Touch (1), Contagion (4).

As you can see, if you are using the core ruleset only, attacking with touch spells isn't something that should cause this much discussion

[Stuart]

Lights touch paper ...
This sort of thing is what drove me away from trying to role play with D&D many years ago. Though I'm sure you guys are correct and the rules allow a mage to complete a touch spell by using another object/familiar/person etc to complete it ... does it not bother you that this is rule playing rather than role playing ?

[Cypher]

Lights touch paper ...
This sort of thing is what drove me away from trying to role play with D&D many years ago. Though I'm sure you guys are correct and the rules allow a mage to complete a touch spell by using another object/familiar/person etc to complete it ... does it not bother you that this is rule playing rather than role playing ?

Not really

Especially since the title of the thread specifically asked a Rules question.

[ghedrain]

I play a cleric so I think the touch thing is a bit more important to the cleric class. I like to try and follow the rules to keep the game fair and because I don't like to be caught doing something stupid because I didn't know a rule about it. However if there is room to wiggle and roleplay I will definately do that.

[Cypher]

I play a cleric so I think the touch thing is a bit more important to the cleric class. I like to try and follow the rules to keep the game fair and because I don't like to be caught doing something stupid because I didn't know a rule about it. However if there is room to wiggle and roleplay I will definately do that.

Ah, well if you're playing a cleric then you have much less to worry about. Keep your AC high, and pump up your Concentration. Soon enough you'll be casting defensively without worrying about AoO's.