Page 2 of 2 First 12

Thread: Effects in FG

  1. #11
    LordEntrails's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    GMT -7
    Posts
    8,189
    Blog Entries
    9
    First, I'm concerned that L.R. said my reply sounded strong. I'm not sure what that means, and am concerned it came across differently than I intended; negatively or aggressively or something. That was not my intent and I apologize if that's how others saw it. My statement was an attempt to point out that all of these things are do-able, and they could be done by SW, but it's about resource allocations. Every company has to decide where to best spend it's resources (money). Over the two years I've been an FG customer, I have felt that SW has done an excellent job investing the money I have spent with them on the biggest value add.

    Quote Originally Posted by General06 View Post
    In this comparison with Skyrim, the actual vanilla game worked. The skills in the game and the items did what the description said it would do. All the mods you could download and use in Skyrim enhanced the vanilla game with more goodies and eye candy. Additionally, Skyrim costs $40 bucks. The entire D&D collection with an Ultimate license cost me over $500. For $500, I was hoping for a vanilla game that does not require me to code in the basic effects of feats, items, and skills. I am all for the community making a working game, work better. But here, the community is trying to make a broken game work period.
    I fear that your expectations for FG were misplaced. I can only respond on my understanding, as a user, perhaps SmiteWorks would reply differently (and certainly with more skill than I).

    FG costs $40 too. The other $460 you spent, you spent on content or licenses beyond the application itself. Perhaps an ultimate license at ~$120 so that your players would not need the $40 license. Then the rest was content, not capabilities (i.e. you purchased the WotC products). Buying the WotC products does get you something, it gets you the ability to drag and drop, search, reference, maps, pre-generated encounters, story entries, etc. I too buy them (not all, but the ones I need and can afford). To me, they have saved me hundred of hours, well worth the price I have paid.

    For $40, FG works as a virtual table top. It does not work as a computer RPG. It was never designed to. It lets you do everything you can do on paper, on the VTT. All of those things; remembering conditions, effects, tracking hit points, etc would have to be done with pencil and paper (tokens, mini's, etc) on a table top. FG let's us do all that plus it helps automate a great deal of it. But, not everything. As others have said, some of this is due to complexity of coding, some because to do so would break the flow or processes used in TTRPGs, some because it allows players and their game masters to do things the way they want to.

    At this point though, what I think is important to discuss is how can General06 be a happy customer? I don't know if clarifying or setting expectation or such helps since he has already purchased (though SW does have a 30 day money back guarantee).

    What can we do to help?

    Current Projects: Ultimate Undermountain (NYDUM)
    Community Contributions: Gemstones, 5E Quick Ref Decal, Adventure Module Creation, Dungeon Trinkets
    DMsGuild Content: Balance Disturbed (Adventure), Dungeon Room Descriptions
    FG Product Reviews: Virtual Scribe Reviews

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LordEntrails View Post
    First, I'm concerned that L.R. said my reply sounded strong. I'm not sure what that means, and am concerned it came across differently than I intended; negatively or aggressively or something. That was not my intent and I apologize if that's how others saw it.
    Ah, let me clarify. By "strong," I mean a conclusion that probably follows from the stated premises. To say that an argument is "strong" is to say that the author has provided good support for his argument. A "weak" argument, by contrast, hasn't provided enough support to prove the conclusion.

    Editor's Note: "Inductive arguments make weaker claims than those made by deductive arguments. Because their conclusions are never certain, the terms validity and invalidity do not apply to inductive arguments. . . . The higher the level of probability conferred on its [an inductive argument's] conclusion by the premises of an inductive argument, the greater is the merit of that argument. We can say that inductive arguments may be 'better' or 'worse,' 'weaker' or 'stronger,' and so on" (Copi, Cohen, and McMahon 25).

    FG developers make decisions based on a wise use of resources.
    Resources do not permit developers both to develop Unity and to code effects in the existing system.
    It is wiser to use resources to develop Unity than to code effects.
    Therefore, the developers choose to develop Unity.

    I think that that argument is "strong," i.e., probably true. Furthermore, and in answer to the OP, I think that it is wiser to develop Unity partly because it will enable the FG community to improve the utility so that it produces all the effects the OP seeks.

    Source: Copi, Irving M., Carl Cohen, and Kenneth McMahon. Introduction to Logic. 14th edition. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice
    Hall, 2011.
    Last edited by L. R. Ballard; June 7th, 2017 at 07:56. Reason: Deleted link: the definitions weren't scholarly. Added quotation of definition.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by LordEntrails View Post
    At this point though, what I think is important to discuss is how can General06 be a happy customer? I don't know if clarifying or setting expectation or such helps since he has already purchased (though SW does have a 30 day money back guarantee).

    What can we do to help?
    Exactly. I agree that if the product hasn't met the OP's expected results, my offering him a philosophical argument to the contrary won't suffice. But I think that it's important to note that FG Unity could address some of those coding issues by involving modders. In that respect, the FG community may have something to learn from Skyrim mods, the strength of the rest of my comparison notwithstanding.

    I'll get back to converting NPCs and leave customer service to the professionals!

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by General06 View Post
    I was hoping for a vanilla game that does not require me to code in the basic effects of feats, items, and skills. I am all for the community making a working game, work better. But here, the community is trying to make a broken game work period.
    I think the key point here is that you were hoping to get these things included - but they weren't advertised or promised as being included. Furthermore, them not being included does not make the game in any way broken - it works just fine!

  5. #15
    You can't compare any tabletop RPG to Skyrim. Its not a video game, and it won't ever run like one. Tabletops are a true open world, where nearly anything can be attempted and might even succeed. It is impossible for any program to include every possible variation on every ruling for every ability. The rules are designed specifically with flexibility in mind. The nature of a tabletop RPG does not lend itself to full automation. And to do that would remove a lot of the flexibility and place hard limits on the game. There are as many ways to use an ability in game as there are players and GMs. The game is not broken. You just don't know how to play it. If a little bit of simple math is too intimidating, then find a GM that prefers to work behind a screen and do the math for you, or go play a video game where you don't need a GM. If you are trying to GM a game, and you run into something that the computer won't do "for you", then just use your imagination and interpret the situation in a way that is best for your story, your players and your table. I have played D&D in the middle of the woods using slips of paper in place of dice and no books - and it was a fantastic game. Lasted three straight days. Fantasy Grounds is not "the game". It is only a tool to use when playing the game.

  6. #16
    I always encourage people to learn and code themselves (so that they can understand how to affect their own homebrew stuff), but if you don't wanna bother with it, I have made solutions.

    https://www.dmsguild.com/product/226...ate_rem=878507
    https://www.dmsguild.com/product/231...ate_rem=878507
    rob2e - Join me on Discord!
    Become a Patron!
    Ultimate License Holder (owner of ALL 5E WotC material, and much more)
    Time Zone: U.S. Pacific (UTC -8 or -7; Check Local Listings)
    Follow me on Twitter
    Come watch the Twitches... twitch.tv/rob2e
    Also my YouTube Channel
    My Dungeon Master's Guild Material

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in