So... starting with CC3/CC3+

[Varsuuk]

As Zacc says, just start with CC3+ unless you want to use some of the old annuals (which you have to purchase anyway). Really do take the time to do the sample maps with each product. They are detailed in the user guide. Not only will you learn a lot about how to do the various commands, you'll also learn a good workflow. With CC, it's important that you make the map in a certain order, doing so allows you to leverage the power of sheet effects with minimal re-work or re-organizing of you mep elements.

Also, don't be afraid to ask on the forums over there, they are just as helpful as everyone here. Finally, if you're not familiar, checkout the Cartographer's Guild, they are another great community for map makers (even amatuer ones).

Will do on both your good suggestions!

[Varsuuk]

At work so gotta stop reading for bit, but among first things read was the Tome, which I recall looking at before but didn't think of when ordered the rest on sale.


Good news is their BF code still works and I got it for 13.99 or so. So, will continue to read that thread later and figure where reading Tome comes in scheme of things. I'll check out those starting videos to go along with.

[Varsuuk]

Wow, just looked at Fantasy and Dungeon symbol sets and especially loved the grey/white mountains on that sample pdf over world. So tempted while still on sale, but I expect these are not "must have" (or are they, cos if are ... in for a penny, in for a pound and i'll get on sale) so can wait until know more and or next big sale?

[Zacchaeus]

It really depends on whether you are going to be drawing dungeon maps or overland maps. For FG I almost never need an overland map; I need battlemaps that the players can take on the monsters on. Thus I only really need the dungeon symbols since that's the kind of maps I draw. (And besides I can't draw overland maps for toffee). You might get more out of the overland symbol sets if you draw or intend to draw a lot of overland maps. Symbols for dungeons I gobble up wherever I find them.

[Varsuuk]

Ok, Im hearing I should probably buy these... Still have time it seems to order today.

Making dungeons (my primary starting thing, but do plan on making my campaign world layout be diff using places/political stiff from places as varied as GH, FR, Mydtara, TW and Midkemia for little of this and that but that's more of in game things - will use a simplish overland to get the layout in my head well before make a "real" map

anyhow, if I am starting making dungeon maps, are the symbols you get with dungeon designer sufficient or really want the dungeon symbol pack off the get-go too?

[NotRussellCrowe]

Hi, Varsuuk.

There are thousands of free symbols available for you too here
https://forum.profantasy.com/comment...&page=1#Item_0

I can't quite comment on the quality and how many dungeon vs overland symbols are in there, nor fantasy vs modern vs future, but there are lots. Check out the above link and look into each collection. They are free but take a while to download.

[LordEntrails]

Also check out the CSUAC and Vintyri (spelling?) collections. You can find them through the PF or Cartographer's Guild forums. Though I would suggest waiting until you've done the tutorial maps before adding them in.

[Jay_NOLA]

I tried to post this reply earlier but it didn’t show up so here goes attempt number 2.

I’ve been using CC3 and other map making software for a very long time so I’ll mention a few getting started tips for CC3 & CC3+ and cover some stuff in detail on things to be aware of best on what you said in the last few posts.

CC3 & CC3+ are very similar so if you learn CC3 you’ll just have to learn the new CC3+ stuff.

Now as you know everything has gotten a CC3+ update yet. ProFantasy is working on that slowly but certain things need to get updated to CC3+ before others. The older Annuals will get updated but are going to take awhile because of this. Cosmographer3 just got a beta CC3+ version and a non-beta version is going to be next. A CC3+ of Dioramas Pro also needs to gets done before all the old Annuals can get updated b too.

Now install order, patching questions show up a lot so I recommend you search the ProFantasy Forum. A discussion on install order came up just recently.

You mentioned you have the FR Atlas. It had 3 patch files and a CC3 map symbols patch. The CC3 map symbols patch can be gotten from the ProFantasy site. The other 3 FR patches your going to have to waybackmachine the page that had them to get them. If one waybacked version gives dead links try another. You need to install all FR patches in order. The replaced some maps and add over 100 more.

The fonts used in the FR Atlas cause install problems on Vista and up and don’t display rights even when you get them to be installed correctly. I made a huge post on font problems and pointed out the problem ones on the ProFantasy forum when I was having font issues and how to fix them.

CC3 installers are always right clicked and run as an Admin on Vista and up. CC3+ eliminated some of the problems CC3 has by not keeping all of its data in the Progam folders. If you find something in CC3 isn’t working try running the program as an Admin. This issue again has been covered in good detail on the ProFantasy forums.

Now for getting started you’ll have an essentials PDF and a much larger PDF for the main program.

A lot of people have trouble with the PDF manuals and a better and free alternative to get you up and running in less than about 3 hours existed.

Joe Sweeny made several tutorial videos that cover installing CC3, how the interface works, making battle tiles, making and old school map symbols, etc.

You can watch them on you tube. Some have higher resolution versions you can download as they were made for annuals. (More on this a latter.

Start from his first CC3 video and go from there.

His YouTube page is at:

https://www.youtube.com/user/joesweeney88/videos

ProFantasy has made some of the older CC3 Annuals single issues available for free.

(Note, that the Battle Tiles and High Space one have 2 zip file for each of tutorial videos to go with them that were done by Joe Sweeny. So look on that issues description page carefully for the download links. It is easy to miss them and to just download one zip and not the 2nd one for each of those issues. Also the big download installer of sample issues is easy to miss too.)

The Tome of ultimate mapping is good but do note that it has some errors and only some of the tutorials got a CC3+ version in the zip, which is a manual install. An updated/revised version for CC3+ is slowly in the works, but don’t expect to see it released until the bulk of CC3 stuff has gotten a CC3+ version.

The Vityrni.org site got mentioned for free symbols. The Instruction PDF for the downloads like CSUAC , Bogie's Mapping Objects, will often have links to other files you need to download to install them that aren't shown on the website so read them.

Do be aware that some of the symbols may contain drop shadows and have other things which may not make them look great in CC3 and/or CC3+ most were made for other mapping programs originally. This which is why many have drop shadows as a couple of mapping programs don't make them.

Do note too that the CSUAC has different install paths for the CC3 version now compared to the original version. The version on the site uses the FM8 version files with some modification, because of redistribution problems with the old CC3 version.

[Jay_NOLA]

I did and edit of my last post to fixed a couple of errors.

Plus, I also have some some additional information on some things to mention.

The Free Annuals I mentioned in the last post if you have trouble finding them are:

The Cartographer’s Annual Vol 3 2009 Example Printed Tile Special Issue (Don't forget to download the 2 zips of videos that go with it.)
The Cartographer's Annual Vol 5 20011 Free Issue Jon Roberts Dungeons

The ProFantasy Blog entry for October 15, 2012 has a download link for a big installer file of 6 free Annual issues.

The High Space Tiles issue that is part of from the 2012 Annual have videos in 2 zips that you have to download from that annual's description page. The YouTube ones that the blog points to are lower resolution online ones.

One other free issue got include in the newer CC3 patch and another free issue exist that was an add-on on to Dioramas Pro annual issues.

Each annual has a page just dedicated to each issue so you can find the download links for it on it. (Note:The Battle Tiles one is going to be very important as exporting your map for use in a Fantasy Grounds or a VTT is covered in one of the tutorial videos.)

If for some reason you decide to get a copy of Fractal Mapper and/or Dundjinni CC3 on a fresh (not repair) instillation will give an install a version of the CC3 map symbols for them. If you can't do a new install for some reason. ProFantasy can send you zip files so you can install those symbols manual so the other mapping software can use them.

CC3+ does not have this option. An updated version of the files along with the new CC3+ symbols did get done, but most likely isn't going to be in any CC3+ or future installer. If ProFantasy does make them available for the other programs they'll end up as zips most likely.

Some issues/bugs exist with the symbols in other programs. I did a conversion of all the new "default" CC3+ ones and worked on "fix files" for the older CC3 ones when CC3+ came out that were given to Ralf of ProFantasy.

Ok now some stuff on symbol scale and on making your own and I'll wrap this up.

One thing I do want to mention is that the symbol scale size for certain mapping styles isn't the same. So a castle png in one style may be a different scale size compared to one in another. However do be aware that certain default symbol scales exist when it comes to making more symbols.

If you search the this thread on the ProFantasy forum and use the word Mi-Go in your search you'll see some map symbols I made. A few Mi-Go for the Lovecraft fans and a tank.

The symbols were made much larger than they need to be as it easy better to have to scale the image down in a image editor than to have the image be too small and if it had to be scaled up in an image editor it wouldn't look good.

Always make new map symbols larger initially and scale down as you go.

Not that they have no drop shadows. The Mi-Go could with some obvious re-scaling be used in Dundjinni or Dugeonographer Pro, but I would have to add in a drop shadow to the png. So determine if you need drop shadows or not and if you plan to use a symbol in multiple programs you may need a non-drop shadow and a drop shadow versions in the right size.


CC3 & CC3+ also uses different resolutions versions of the same symbol (multiple pngs) unlike other programs (they only use just 1 png.) so be aware of this.


Trim away excess free space from around the png and optimize it. I didn't do that for those symbol pngs in that as I wanted people to have the raw image pngs to work with, but you will want to and have to do this.

The default image pixel size is also different in other programs in a few cases too.

Anyway hope all that stuff helps and just post on the ProFantasy forums if you need help or have any questions.

[Varsuuk]

Wow! Thanks!

I guess, if I can find my key (forget if it was key-based) I will install FRI just so can patch it to CC3 to see what happens. If it works, I will then keep the CC3 installment I guess along with + so can use FRI if I like it still like I used to

The rest, well Sat night is a good time to start serious sit down with vids