Code Monkey Publishing and The Sunless Citadel

[Thore_Ironrock]

Robert,

Thanks for the review. Regarding the maps and tokens (which were your main complaints on the product) I'll let Rob make an official statement from CMP. As the developer, I will say that I actually like the maps a lot. They are based on CMP's Interactive Adventures product, and I think they are much better than the B&W versions that were released with the original product. Perhaps you will change your mind when you see IA.

As for the tokens, I will make this suggestion. There are several illos included with the adventure simply for fluff, and they can be easly cropped for 50x50 icons.

As for releasing tokens in general, that is a difficult thing for some. In some cases a company may have to pay and artist to reuse their art in another format other than the printed product (often referred to as 1st print rights), and then it becomes an extra expense for the publisher. I have commented on this in another thread recently if you want a more specific reference:

https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/viewtopic.php?t=1012

On the flip side there are several people out there putting out plenty of tokens for the community, so I guess you have to take it with a grain of salt.

In the end, I'm more excited that you enjoyed the product's presentation. Since that was our (DA's & CMP's) first offering, we're happy to get feedback so we can make the next one (Forge of Fury) even better.

Best Regards,

[CMP Mynex]

I was going to quote it, but realized that I'd only be addressing a tiny bit of that post... so...

The tile floor and tokens absence!

Tile floor
I think that's going to end up being a personal opinion on a person by person case. You weren't overly fond of it, Thore like it, I personally like it, one of my partners doesn't... So, yea, definately a case by case there.

Tokens Absence
This one bugs me too. Its bugged me since we did the Interactive Adventures under Campaign Cartographer Pro (for 'at the table' play)...

So I've been talking with some companies about tokens... that have produced tokens or mini's to make their stuff into electronic tokens for the stuff we kick out.

This hasn't firmed up totally, but it's getting there.

To address what Thore said about artists and whatnot - yea, we looked into that, and it was prohibitively expensive. So, no tokens.

Also as noted, there are a TON of tokens already. While maybe not an optimal solution, better to leave out tokens and let the users pick their own to put into place than to have crappy tokens.

Thanks for the positive review, we already have some plans to update SC based on how Forge of Fury gets worked out with the 1.5 FG tabbing stuff... So the product is only going to get better.

[Thore_Ironrock]

I got Sunless Citadel working in the CSRD

All you need to do is open the CSRD's base.xml and add the following just above the </root> entry:

<importinfo>
	<acceptfrom ruleset="d20" />
</importinfo>

This makes the CSRD compatible with the d20 sets' modules. Who would have guessed, it helps to read the patch notes carefully

This will also work for those who have made custom campaign rulesets and want to use .mods with them.

Thank you Illrigger! I will work with Rob on this for SC and future products. What I'm thinking we might do is include comprehensive directions with the download on what to do in certain situations with the MOD file. Once I get the game mode thing figure out, and a few more changes for Rob, he will likely post something to all who have downloaded the product. He already has the touched up Player map, so the rest should be done probably by the weekend.

Thanks again Illrigger!!!

[Thore_Ironrock]

Gents,

I also received this email today from Ville on these issues:

<thanks Ville!>

***********************

if you start a new campaign and select the Complete SRD ruleset, FG will
use the database structure of the C-SRD (instead of the out-of-the-box d20). Because FG per se cannot verify that these two rulesets are compatible, it does not allow for activating the module made for d20 in C-SRD. With the patch 1.05 we came up with an additional tag, that allows the maker of a ruleset to 'declare' that the ruleset is compatible with other rulesets. Say, I made a few houserules to the C-SRD, and wanted to be able to use modules exported from d20 and C-SRD, I would place in my /rulesets/C_SRD_Ville/base.xml the tags:

<importinfo>
<acceptfrom ruleset="d20" />
<acceptfrom ruleset="C-SRD" />
</importinfo>

In the case of Complete SRD ruleset, the tag decalring it compatible with d20 is of course only,

<importinfo>
<acceptfrom ruleset="d20" />
</importinfo>

That is of course, if you know that the C-SRD is compatible, to the extent that all module info is compatible, with d20, which _seems_ to be the case (somebody at the forums already told doing this):
https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/vi...=1041&start=17

What actually goes out as a module from a given ruleset is only that, which is defined to go out, eg in d20 ruleset in the d20_exportinfo.xml (it is
irrelevant where the tags are, but in that ruleset they are in the said file):

<exportinfo>
<node name="encounter" />
<node name="image" />
<node name="npc" />
<node name="item" />
</exportinfo>

where (for historical reasons) encounter=story pages, image=images,
npc=personalities and item=items. In particular, anything that is read in as
<staticdata> stays out of a module, e.g. reference material.

Bottom line, if the definition code of story pages, images, personalities and
items in C-SRD have at least the same tags than d20-ruleset, the declaration of compliance can be made in base.xml. If some of those tags are missing, the module would still probably work with the ruleset, but as some data is not displayed, that would be missing from the user interface of FG.
*****************************

Hope this all helps folks. If people have anymore questions or issues please post them. In the meantime we'll sheer up the product and include a FAQ along with it.


Regards,

[WolfStar76]

Taking a closer look at the player maps in Sunless Citadel today, and wanted to point out these additional items for reconsideration:

* Secret doors on the citadel level (already mentioned)

* Treasure Chests - used as clickables in the Interactive Adventures module to tell the GM what treasures were to be found in a room. Those chests are still on the player maps. It won't take most parties long to figure out "Hey, there's stuff to be had here if we just keep looking". (Both levels)

* Squares with red bars on them (See room 29 on the Citadel Level). These only show on the GM map in Interactive adventures, and are used to describe traps. (Citadel Level)

* Lock symbols to denote locked doors. Not a big deal here, really, if a door is locked the PCs are gonna learn that quickly enough. However, it can also mean they start to know which doors to open "first". "That door's locked? Must be something good there!" (Citadel Level)

* Red-dashed line to indicate secret passageways. See room 52 on the Grove level map for a sample of this. This red line only shows on the GM view of the Interactive Adventures module, but is very apparent on the player map in Fantasy Grounds. To a lesser degree, this is also a problem in room 11 on the Citadel Level. (Citadel and Grove Level)

I think my workaround, for the time being, is going to just be to make screenshots of the Player maps in the IA module, and thanks to FG's new zoom feature, lay those down as my maps. The only icons that show on those maps are the "F" for Flavor Text, and I don't care if my party can see that.

Sorry to be critical guys. Everything else is SO spot-on (not so much as a typo that I can find), but maps are a HUGE part of FG, and having a map that reveals too much just kinda puts a damper on things.

That said, I still can't thank CMP and DA enough for doing this in the first place. Here's to waiting semi-patiently for the "fixed maps" revision. :lol:

{EDIT}
As long as I'm wish-listing here. . . it would also be nice if the images were categorized. One category for maps, one for the city (and its maps), one for the monster images, etc.

But that's just a wishlist. I can do that myself once the module is installed.

[WolfStar76]

Soooo. . .

. . . I know the Monkies are busy with data set updates, RPGT, and all the other stuff that you work so hard on. . . but could we get an update on where we stand with the re-issue of this module?

[Thore_Ironrock]

I have sent changes to CMP. If you want more info email him direct at:

[email protected]

[Yraen]

Okay . . . so call me dumb . . . but I bought this a couple of days ago and am wondering what exactly am I supposed to have available? I've read about story pages but so far, I've only been able to access the images. When do these story pages kick in? The maps are nice but I could've done them myself.

[WolfStar76]

Ummm, not sure what you mean by story pages, but if you mean the individual room/encounter descriptions, the big red book on the upper-right hand side of the DM's desktop you can see the indiviually numbered descriptions and room items.

Likewise, the "personalities" tab lists all the NPCs that are part of this module.

Of course, you have to have the module loaded in order to see all that, but it sounds like you already have that down since you see the maps.

As far as knowing what entry is keyed to what room, the DM maps lists that info pretty well. You can also use the new bookmarking feature to link each description to each room, which is what I did for my player map, so I didn't have to have so many windows open.

I forget the exact process for that, but I think you just hold CTRL and drag the linkbox from the "story" book to the room(s) that it describes. Then, when you're looking at the map and hold CTRL, you can open that room description quickly and easily.

Hope that helps.

[Yraen]

Thanks for that, WolfStar76. I've discovered that I didn't have all the relevant patches installed . . . d'oh! It's all working fine now.