C&C effect guide ?

[Moon Wizard]

Thanks, Trenloe! I just came over to respond, and you had already done it.

Cheers,
JPG

[dr_venture]

Excellent info - thanks! It sounds like damage type has not been implemented fully, then?

So even with the various examples and explanations, the two things I'm left not fully understanding are:

1) ABIL effect. I see the if you just enter something like "ABIL: 5" then every attribute check from the front page and every Ability check from the Abilities page will all have +5 added to them, regardless of the stat or ability rolled against. That has some uses, but I'm guessing that the strength of that effect lies in defining the "(specific ability option)." Anyone know what the valid entries for that are? I've played around with it a bit and can't get anything to work.

2) A few of the options have a modifier named "(can be targeted)" ... what does that mean? Again, looking at the examples and playing around, I can't figure out what that means, if anything.

[dr_venture]

BTW, if anyone is looking for a dev project, it seems like a really good extension would be a small Effects Builder panel that the GM could just type a name and modify a convenient user interface, then drag a generic Effect token from the Effects Builder panel to the CT, and the fully formatted effect would drop into the CT without teh GM having to memorize syntax and type a bunch of stuff in on-the-fly... nor would the GM have to have a huge library of potential Effects for all possible uses.

The Great Oz has spoken. Well, actually he's on the boards and isn't me... so, the great me has blah blahed.

[JohnD]

Yeah, an Effects builder would be nice. I'm making them as I need them on the fly, but would love to have a full roster ahead of time.

[Moon Wizard]

Actually, I've always thought that each effect should have its own detail window, with a name, a list of effects, and various drop-downs for adding / modifying specific effect modifiers. Then, documentation wouldn't be as required to use the feature.

I also think that this would be an excellent system to add to CoreRPG for all rulesets to build on.

There are 2 main problems:
* The effects list concept would probably not be compatible with the current implementation. Not a problem, just do a migration. The only exception being for module data which wouldn't be hard to move over.
* This is not a trivial project. It requires some serious interface design/iteration plus a complete overhaul of effects back end for C&C, 3.5E, PFRPG, 4E and 5E.

So, it's not currently queued, though it's on my personal wish list. Let me know if someone wanders down that dev path, and I can help with the generalization to all rulesets.

Also, for abilities, the valid sub tags are strength, dexterity, etc.

Cheers,
JPG

[damned]

JPG - you know you want to do it!
In the meantime...
JohnD - can you export your effects and post the XML or email it or PM it to me...

[Trenloe]

1) ABIL effect. I see the if you just enter something like "ABIL: 5" then every attribute check from the front page and every Ability check from the Abilities page will all have +5 added to them, regardless of the stat or ability rolled against. That has some uses, but I'm guessing that the strength of that effect lies in defining the "(specific ability option)." Anyone know what the valid entries for that are? I've played around with it a bit and can't get anything to work.

The "(specific ability option)" is the ability name, strength, dexterity, etc.. and is used for rolls directly against that ability.

The effect: ABIL:2 strength would add 2 to all rolls made against the strength ability on the main page - it does not impact rolls made with stats derived off strength.

Slightly related and where some confusion might come in, the STR effect. STR:2 would add 2 to the effective strength score which would then modify the dice roll based on the modified total strength score - this effect does impact some STR based rolls (melee attack, for example) but doesn't seem to impact skills with the Str attribute.

2) A few of the options have a modifier named "(can be targeted)" ... what does that mean? Again, looking at the examples and playing around, I can't figure out what that means, if anything.

This is for how you apply the effect.

EDIT: Sorry, it doesn't look like targeting effects works as I originally described - you can't target a bunch of tokens and apply the effect as one. By default, if tthe GM presses the apply effect button it will be applied to the currently active entry in the combat tracker, if a player presses the button it will be applied to their active character.

To apply effects to other creatures, drag the effect to the token or the entry on the combat tracker to apply the effect that way.

[dr_venture]

The effect: ABIL:2 strength would add 2 to all rolls made against the strength ability on the main page - it does not impact rolls made with stats derived off strength.

Ah - I tried that and it didn't work - turns out that it's case-sensitive... I was putting in "Strength" as it's listed on the front page of the character sheet. Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, the fact that the effect bonus doesn't carry through to other stat-based rolls means I'll probably never use it - I can't think of a circumstance where I'd only want to have straight stat rolls and no stat-based rolls (like ability checks) affected. That's meant more as C&C gamer feedback for JPG, as I understand this feature may affect other rulesets differently.

Thanks again, Tren!

[dr_venture]

Actually, I've always thought that each effect should have its own detail window, with a name, a list of effects, and various drop-downs for adding / modifying specific effect modifiers. Then, documentation wouldn't be as required to use the feature.

I also think that this would be an excellent system to add to CoreRPG for all rulesets to build on.

Well, yeah that'd be cool! But given that it's such a pain to implement, what about just having a little effect builder at the bottom or top of the Effects window - have a text field for a title, then a dropdown with the valid effects, a field for number or die text, etc. then have an "Add" button that adds that to the current Effect being built. When the GM feels it's ready, then he just drags it from the builder like any old effect onto somebody in the CT. That would eliminate the need to rebuild the underlying Effects code, and make it easier to introduce expanded effects in the future (it's easier for GMs to see a new entry in a menu and figure out what it is, than to find a listing of text values in a forum somewhere).

My main thinking here is that this would cut down on the need to pre-save an saved effect for everything before the game, as having really long lists in that window very quickly makes it all but unusable to me... to hard to find what I want, no way to organize them in the window.

[Trenloe]

Yeah, an effects builder would be nice.

My main thinking here is that this would cut down on the need to pre-save an saved effect for everything before the game, as having really long lists in that window very quickly makes it all but unusable to me... to hard to find what I want, no way to organize them in the window.

Make effects with labels/descriptions - there is a search field in the effects window so it is pretty easy to organise effects and find them fairly qucikly.

Format of the effect would be: <description/label>; Effect1; Effect2; ...

For example, the charge effect that I give in the example effects: Charge; DMG:2;AC:-4

Charge is the label/description - start typing c-h-a etc. in the effects window search field and it will dynamically search the effects in the list to find what you're looking for. You'll soon find that having these effects (especially multi-item effects) in a list can be found very quickly and applied with the click of a button. Using an effect builder would take quite a few clicks - click on DMG, enter 2, click "add effect" to add the effect to a list, select "AC" enter -4, add the effect to the effects list, then add a label so people looking at the effect in the combat tracker will know what it is there for, and add a duration. All of this can be pre-entered in the effects list in the campaign all ready to go.

Yes, an effects generator would be nice - but it is still better to have a list of frequently used effects ready to go.

But, just like a lot of things with Fantasy Grounds, there is a steep learning curve - but spending the time to learn something is well worth it. Effects are very, very powerful - but with that power comes some level of complexity. Don't let the new, perhaps confusing syntax, put you off - there are plenty of people in the 4E, 3.5E and Pathfinder community who have been through the same learning curve as you and now use many, many effects to track lots of different things...

A key thing to remember is that the effects list can be exported to a module - so you can make it exactly how you want it and re-use again and again. Perhaps some members of the Castles & Crusades community can get together and create a frequently used effects module that can be a good starting point for everyone???

As an example of what can be done with effects have a look at this list for Pathfinder: http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums...ffects-library