SW Enhanced Library extension

[S Ferguson]

I'll start on the math and other assigned homework right away.

[S Ferguson]

[quote=Ikael]There is a big chance that the math could go wrong. For example when character creation is done? -- If all characters would be created outside campaign that would be ok, but for example in my case I create character within the campaign and thus there is no direct way to define when character is done. This kinda feature would requires that system is aware of character's character creation stats and would compare current values to them and determines if something is missing etc. This is not supported at the moment

Let's see: You'd have to keep track of XP, No. of Advances, the floor(XP/5), a drag'N'drop tagged list of indices, for skills or edges, or whatnot. and the usual character creation points. That's it. Once a character is created, no matter *how* it's created, it's done. all your points are spent. Usually, player's decide when it's done. It's only when the GM awards XP that this sytem would come into play. *Only* refering to the above. (one of which is already implemented .

A button could be provided which which would lock character' current values into base values, but what if character _was_ not ready after all, because of humane error: character has seasoned edge even if he couldn't get it, or if player would like to change a hindrance in the near beginning of the game (happened to me and I accepted it when hindrance didn't have effects yet).

This is character creation. You haven't started to get XP at this point.

The whole transparency between "created character" and "ongoing character" is making this difficult. There should be possiblity fix that humane error or the whole math is wrong for the rest of character's lifespan. Then again if you can fix that humane error, it makes it possible to make another error Think about situation where you have developed to legenday, and for reason or another you reset your "base values" to current ones. The system would be providing you dozens of advances but you have had them already.

Human error happens in *any* system, no matter how well something is written: garbage in garbage out. You can't if you're following the rules, decrease an attribute: except due to a hinderance or age, it can't happen. If any character lowered his attribute dice that has no impact on how much XP he has or how many advances he can store. I can mess with my character now, and it will mess up the points tracker. Most character's are "finished" once play starts, then "level" with an advance. If you really need it, you could drag anrop edges/skills/die increases, from the book onto the advances, which would then appear "tagged" to the system.

What about situation where you mistakenly delete existing skill? The system would believe that you have advance but it's more costy to bring it back (you have to use whole advance for adding new skill).

Unless it was a "tagged" skill it wouldn't matter; you'd buy it back with the same amount of advances you put into it (you'd get the number of Die advances, and the initial cost of gaining the skill). If it isn't tagged it generally will be reentered by the player, at it's former value. *Usually* there's no cheating, or the GM steps in.

We are playing a *fair* game after all. And all "improvements" would be on the server side "tagged" as an advantage, rather than the players side, so it is fairly restricted in what a player can alter. Besides if it falls below it's "tagged" XP, it's taken off charter starting points.

Such method would work in, say computer game where there is strict steps doing something: character creation and playing the game. You cannot go back to character creation after you have started the game, but in VTT we are humans and sometimes we want to do something that doesn't go the strict straight line.

Without the VOIP, this is pretty much a Minimal MUD. It is a computer game with rules designed by people, and accepted by people; and just like in pen and paper games you usually don't cheat (at least I hope you don't ). You can cheat in MUDs as well; but most people play to enjoy themseles, and grow as characters. Hence the chat and OOC chat.

It's really hard for someone to *subcontiously* navigate and delete icons to getting rid of the skill. That's why the icons for deletion were placed where they were. And if they do and the skill wasn't dropped onto the advance box, you wouldn't have too worry about iit because it would be "tagged", so values "tagged" would come off XP first, and the rest would come out of development points..

[qoute=Ikeal]This feature is very much doable, but maybe would require too much effort and changes compared to its benefits. But I am open ears to hear if you could provide full set of rules how this is applied, and that it would support methods fixing humane errors. In addition it should not be error prone in math because of this flexibility. With such rules I could review it and possibly include it into request list

Don't forget that SW is an "additive" rules system, in terms of points values and XP. With a "tagged" system (which could be a table of indices of the skills, edges or die increases) the only thing you can do is subtract until you can't any more. eventually you'll get to the standard blank character sheet (well with the character's name, and whatnot ) And 5 and 15 points to spend (which is already handled) if you're playing a standard game. It's just a game with numbers, and it would actually benefit the system because you could now truly separate, what was there to begin with and what was achieved along the journey to Legendary characters.

This at least separates the creation, from the gains due to achievements. You could even have a drag'n'drop sytem of adding edges, skills and die increases into the XP box so they show up in a "character log," a record of their progress through the game.

[Ikael]

...
This at least separates the creation, from the gains due to achievements. You could even have a drag'n'drop sytem of adding edges, skills and die increases into the XP box so they show up in a "character log," a record of their progress through the game.

The idea of "Character log" made me more interested about this idea, For some reason it would be nice to see how each character progressed, and maybe I could learn something from it It's not that useful but nice to have.

Basically I consider this idea as "nice to have" overall. I still think that, despite your comprehensive description, the math still has holes. Issues I am having at the moment:

• There is no liner way to calculate how many "advancement points" character has used. We could think that each edge is 2-points, raising skill that's less than your linked attribute is 1-point and raising skill that're equal or greater than your linked attribute costs 2-points. Getting new skill cost 2-points. Each advancement grants you 2-points. Everything goes well until you increase your attribute. The skill was costing X points until die Y and further it costs Z.
• If character takes "Additional Power Points" Edge, they never record it to character sheet, instead they put it into power points max. The system should be aware of how many power points character would have in the beginning and should be aware of changes in the maxes. In addition, I have seen some magical items that increase your power points... it would break the math totally!
• Skills has a MUST to be linked into attributes, so each skills MUST be dragged and dropped from module, and no custom creation cannot be allowed or math breaks

There is big difficulties detecting when "You got an advance" should be displayed and when not.

NOTE: S Ferguson, if you want to continue this talk more, please create new thread since this has nothing to do with SW Enhanced Library extension!

[S Ferguson]

[quote=Ikael]The idea of "Character log" made me more interested about this idea, For some reason it would be nice to see how each character progressed, and maybe I could learn something from it It's not that useful but nice to have.

Basically I consider this idea as "nice to have" overall. I still think that, despite your comprehensive description, the math still has holes. Issues I am having at the moment:

• There is no liner way to calculate how many "advancement points" character has used. We could think that each edge is 2-points, raising skill that's less than your linked attribute is 1-point and raising skill that're equal or greater than your linked attribute costs 2-points. Getting new skill cost 2-points. Each advancement grants you 2-points. Everything goes well until you increase your attribute. The skill was costing X points until die Y and further it costs Z[/qoute]

1) That's because it's static in SWD. Every 5 experience points you get an "advancement" which can be one of the folllowing: gain a free edge, increase a skill that's equal to or greater than it's linked attribute, increaese two skills that are lower than their linked attribute by 1 die, gain a new skill at d4, or increase an attribute by one die. That's all you have to "tag." You keep track of the advancements and only worry about the 5 pts to meet the requirements of having an advancement. When XP is spent, it's gone. Otherwise, characters don't change over the course of the game,
.

• If character takes "Additional Power Points" Edge, they never record it to character sheet, instead they put it into power points max. The system should be aware of how many power points character would have in the beginning and should be aware of changes in the maxes. In addition, I have seen some magical items that increase your power points... it would break the math totally!

2) The edge in FG still has to be recorded on the character sheet (i.e. dragged and dropped). In order to gain those power points so just keep track of the new edge: It can't be taken multiple times.

• Skills has a MUST to be linked into attributes, so each skills MUST be dragged and dropped from module, and no custom creation cannot be allowed or math breaks

3) Like I said, you're limited in what you can "purchase." The only problem I foresaw was this one, however after thnking it over you're only going to gain the skill at d4 or raise the values independant of the link but dependant on the die value. you would just have to keep track of the die type at the time of the raise, then just go to point 1,

There is big difficulties detecting when "You got an advance" should be displayed and when not.

I don't think the difficulties are as bad as you think. It follows the formula of 5 pts=advancement, lose 5 pts until you have enough for another advancement,

NOTE: S Ferguson, if you want to continue this talk more, please create new thread since this has nothing to do with SW Enhanced Library extension!

I've really said all I have to say, but I'd be more than happy to discuss this in another thread.

[meathome]

Why not simply ad an advance tracker in a new tab, like seen on the newer savage worlds character sheets? Maybe make it a bit more interactive for example, you do everything like normal for a new character and use the character summary option to see how many skill and bonus points you spent (you would only need an option to increase an attribute from bonus points) Then have a separate tab with an advance tracker where you can simply select whatever kind of advance you want (for starters nothing needs to be automated just have an advance tracker with text.. I actually use the notes page of my players character sheet for this at the moment) A more advanced version could let you select an advance or drop an edge skill ,whatever, on it...

[S Ferguson]

Why not simply ad an advance tracker in a new tab, like seen on the newer savage worlds character sheets? Maybe make it a bit more interactive for example, you do everything like normal for a new character and use the character summary option to see how many skill and bonus points you spent (you would only need an option to increase an attribute from bonus points) Then have a separate tab with an advance tracker where you can simply select whatever kind of advance you want (for starters nothing needs to be automated just have an advance tracker with text.. I actually use the notes page of my players character sheet for this at the moment) A more advanced version could let you select an advance or drop an edge skill ,whatever, on it...

Now there is a sensible solution.

[Mask_of_winter]

I'm trying to create an arsenal of weapons for my M.I.B. game. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but the "manage" function to create weapons feels a bit clunky. Can someone give me pointers on how to use this please? Also, is it possible to make those entries draggable? Thank you.

[S Ferguson]

I'm trying to create an arsenal of weapons for my M.I.B. game. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but the "manage" function to create weapons feels a bit clunky. Can someone give me pointers on how to use this please? Also, is it possible to make those entries draggable? Thank you.

If your using SWFI, create a new book (by going into the library and right clicking on the left hand field. then in the right hand pane, right click create page, create item, and it will give you the option to create weapons, which automagically are draggable.

Cheers,
SF

[Ikael]

Mods, can you lock this thread. It will be continued in the new thread.