What's the simplest rule system out there?

[MeganHunter]

I got my friends to play Fantasy Grounds, and I've put a lot of work into a generic campaign. Unfortunately I worry how to get it to work in the engine. This is my first time actually using FG so I'm hoping it's not as complicated as all that. All the cool bells and whistles also mean that you don't get the functionality of plain notebook paper.

We'd usually play 2 edition or 3.5, but for this particular game I was really hoping to use my own very dumbed down system. If I had to pick another system, old school Basic D&D would probably be the closest match. While we could try this in 3.5 or 4, I don't think FG would let them design their own classes that way, right? If we just stick with the traditional classes, I worry that the engine won't let me do the things I need to, like add things to their character sheets at certain points: spell like abilities, attacks per round, ect. An empty sheet would be fine, but I heard FG had a lot of auto-updating number stuff built into the code, if so it would cause monstrous problems. I'd also like to add & remove things from the weapons list, ect. I just don't want a by the book campaign.

1. Is there a system in place to make your own character sheet without knowing how to code? Has anyone made a simple template with the fields already in, for example? I don't care about any sort of auto updating, just the blank spots that they can "pencil in" their own info as it updates is fine. Even a blank look with editable text fields for everyone would work in a pinch.

2. If a layman can't create their own system, do any allow you to create your own classes? (Inside FG, of course.)

2. If that's not an option either, what's the simplest game system for FG that you can get? Savage Worlds?

Thanks for the help, it's surprisingly hard to find this info online,

~Megan

[Griogre]

I'll answer this two ways: A lot of your fears seem to be related to automation greatly reducing your flexibly - and this is a valid point. I will say that rulesets vary greatly in automation with the more recent ones being much more automated (and complex usually). Itsounds like just a simple non automated or very low automation is something you are looking for. For 3.5, the original d20 ruleset available in the download section has almost no character sheet automation. This might be exactly what you are looking for for a 3.5 game. If you are more interested in an old school basic D&D game you might want to look at the C&C ruleset. There is about the same amount of character sheet automation as the d20 and Castles and Crusades is pretty much basic D&D except AC counts up like the later versions. Finally there is the Generic ruleset which is just a blank character sheet that you can enter pretty much what you want and its all text with zero automation. https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Generic

On the simplest rule system that's going to be a matter of opinion. I like Savage Worlds but I not sure I would call it the simplest system out there.

[phantomwhale]

I'd say one of FG's great advantages are the custom built rulesets, providing in depth support for specific sets of rules without overly automating.

I would say this makes it less flexable for too much house ruling and extra items. Well, not inflexible - most character sheets have a notes section, and 95% of the time when people need to track an extra bit or bob with a ruleset, the simplest answer is "use the notes section"; like you say - the functionality of a plain sheet of notepaper is sometimes all you want !

That said, if your playing quite a distance away from the 3.5E or 4E rules, I am not sure what FGII can offer - I know there is a "foundation" ruleset somewhere, but I've never used it. Equally I moved away from D&D to give myself less work for planning new adventures and running improvised material, and have indeed gone to Savage Worlds like you suggested.

Not sure if Savage IS the answer to how you want to play - I'd look at the "test drive" rules on pinnacle's website if your interested, to get a flavor of how it works. I also know a few people run the occasional "trial session" of Savage Worlds on the boards too, so maybe try playing in one of them too if you want some fast learning experience. I find it fast and fun (tm) to play, but it's not necessarily a "simple" rule set like Griogre mentions - the rolls and basics are simple (my non-gamer players love it) but there is still some learning to really get into it and understand the nuts and bolts.

If you do decide to go Savage, or have more questions about that, feel free to post more questions either here or on the Savage forums. I've picked up the job of supporting the ruleset at the moment, and expect a new patch out sometime soon to polish it up and add some more helpful features, so can provide lots more information around what can be done within that ruleset.

[MeganHunter]

Thank you both for all of your help, I really appreciate it. I bought FG2 about four years ago but have finally convinced my other friends to use it. Traditionally we play D&D, and I wanted to make sure I was looking at something actually pretty for hours on end, so this was the clear choice.

I've been messing around with your Generic suggestion Griogre and this is perfect, thank you. Essentially two blank sheets without the automation is just what the doctor ordered for this campaign. We're also planning to do at least one more campaign with a different DM, something more realistic and gritty, so any of the complex systems and automation will be very enjoyable there, I'm anxious to see it in action.

Thank you too Phantomwhale, Savage was a pure guess on my part because I know it can do many genres, so I was just guessing that it might have a pretty generic level up system. I do like Pulp stories so if I can get the others excited I'm sure Savage will be the system of choice.

Not to get too off topic, though my own system is based a bit of the "do anything you want" nature of this example. Did anyone whip up a character sheet for Mutants & Masterminds? I've bought all the PDFs from Green Ronin, I'd love to be able to play it. Certainly, this same Generic sheet might work in a pinch.

[Valarian]

If you like pulp stories, it'd be worth investigating Spirit of the Century by Evil Hat. This uses the FATE engine, which is a extremely simple system once you get used to the use of invoking and compelling aspects.

I'd agree with Griogre that Castles and Crusades would fit the games you mentioned above. I'm one of those who hated the old THAC0 system, so I was glad when 3e did away with it. C&C has, I think, the best of the old D&D (simplicity) with the revised combat system of 3e.

[lazarus0280]

Hey Megan. Nice to meetcha. While alot of your questions have probablly been answered, you can also pop into the FG chat room at...

https://fg2.rpg-vault.net/

Sometimes there's alot going on in there and people around willing to answer questions. Also, there are people possibly interested in designing something that you could want for your game. character sheets, etc. The community here is all pretty awesome, so feel free to become apart!

Life can be pretty hectic, but if you find yourself with some free time holler at me. We can get you in some demo's of Savage worlds, 4e or other systems and let you test the waters so to speak. Since joining FG, I've learned sooooo many different rulesets and had a blast. Lots of good ones out there.

Anyway, hope to see you around. Good luck with your game! Introduce us to your other players when you have the chance. We LOVE new blood!

[MeganHunter]

Thanks you guys. My players are wanting me to convert it from my home-made, Basic resembling system (using the blank Generic sheets) into D&D 4th. I've heard some not so great things about that system, especially if you've mostly played 2cd like me, but I don't mind if that's what they want. I see the latest patch added some 4th features, but how does anyone sell modules of the core books? Is it like Wizards doesn't because they want you to shell out money for the miniatures?

[Galeric]

Hey Megan,

I like you came to this with the exact same questions, and i found Castles and Crusades to be D&D basic. You can convert basic/expert and 1e D&D to it very quick and without much effort. C&C is automated to a point, but the rest is pretty much open for you as a DM to do pretty much what ever you like. And a major bonus.. no THAC0 !! woohooo

4e is very automated and being an older school D&D guy, 4e just has way to much going on with it. They tried to make it simple and to a point they have, yet, when i see a "rules compendium" that is 335 pages, i have to wonder exactly what is so simple about it.

To me, home-made is basic to 1e, thats the good stuff.

Just my 2 cents.

[vodokar]

Galeric, you know you don't have to try very hard or long to convince me that AD&D 1e was a kickass game and still is.

However, in order to be fair, the 4e rules compendium is only 355 pages because it is paperback digest size. If it were a full size hardback, it would probably only weigh in about 200 pages -- about the same size as the 1e players manual and that doesn't include the 1e DM's guide.

Are there a lot of rules for 4e? Well, yes and no.

It is a modular game. The core rules that all players need to know are in the rules compendium.

There are a lot of class specific player information which they put books out for, all of which is accessible via the character builder -- thus making it unnecessary to even have or read those books.

As a DM, I have quite a few DM specific books and modules in my library, but that is true of most any game master running any game of any edition of anything.

4e is a much different game than 1e. 1e is more streamlined. But, I wouldn't necessarily say that either one is necessarily more complex from a player point of view. They each have their own complexities. And the very design of any roleplaying game is to hide away those complexities from the player and reveal them one step at a time as they level up.

You went thru that with 1e when you were first learning to play it. The only reason it seems simple to you now is because you've played it before.

Having both played and DM'ed 1e and 4e, I can tell you that most of the complexity of 4e lies in putting more stuff on the DM to keep track of -- namely, in keeping track of all of the different status and state conditions that pc's and npc's can have. That's why the FG 4e ruleset is such a god send, because it can keep track of all of that for the DM.

[vodokar]

There are no 4e modules in the Fantasy Grounds Store, because they are all copyrighted material and the company that owns D&D doesn't permit it. Likewise for Pre 4e D&D, except some materials which were designed under the D20/OGL license by 3rd party companies. The same is true of Paizo's Pathfinder System. Smiteworks tried to get them on board with selling their pathfinder stuff thru the store, but they ended up not signing on.

So, what do we do as DM's? Once legally purchased, we key the adventures into FG ourselves in the case of hard copy modules or Dungeon Magazine articles or we copy/past from pdf's. You can do that to your heart's content, providing it is for your own use -- you just can't legally share it with anyone for sale or gift, since it's copywrited.

Having said that, I will also say that it isn't really necessary to key the entirety of an adventure module into Fantasy Grounds in order to play it. If you have a hard copy of it, you can just read from it--not necessary to put all that into FG unless you want to go completely paperless. The only things absolutely necessary to enter in are the npc/creature stats and maps that will be used during the adventure.

Regarding converting old material into 4th ed. It can be done, however, it is a very big headache, because the games are so much different and have so much different balance. Your much better off running AD&D material in C&C, 3/3.5/pathfinder stuff in 3.5 and 4e in 4e. All three of those rulesets exist in Fantasy Grounds and do a good job of supporting the version of D&D they were designed to support.

I hope that adequately answers your question -- as I've read your question about 10 times and can't really make heads or tails of it what your trying to ask--especially the part asking about modules of the core books and miniatures. No clue what you meant by this.

Regarding what you may or may not have heard regarding 4e -- don't pay any attention to it. Make up your own mind. That is mostly edition wars between those that play Paizo's Pathfinder and those that stuck with WOTC's 4e.

It's all irrelevant to you, because, a great percentage of those people in either camp that make it their business to tell other people how great they think their own choice of modern D&D is and how dumb the other guys are for playing what they play are also into making it their business telling people like you and me that still like AD&D that we are dumb. I know a short pier in a deep lake that those guys can take a long walk on.

The truth is: all versions of D&D (including Pathfinder, which technically isn't D&D since it's by a different company) are good and fun games to play. It just depends on what mood you are in at the time.

Thanks you guys. My players are wanting me to convert it from my home-made, Basic resembling system (using the blank Generic sheets) into D&D 4th. I've heard some not so great things about that system, especially if you've mostly played 2cd like me, but I don't mind if that's what they want. I see the latest patch added some 4th features, but how does anyone sell modules of the core books? Is it like Wizards doesn't because they want you to shell out money for the miniatures?