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Thread: iPad App

  1. #1

    iPad App

    What would an iPad App for FG2 be like?

    I ask because I'm a video game developer by trade and just released my first iPhone game. So I have some experience with the iOS.

    I also just ran my first real, non-experimental, encounter with 3 other players using FG2 and it went pretty well!

    I also have an iPad. Many of my friends have iPads.

    Talking about using FG2 as an in-person table-top substitute, everyone agreed that it's a good idea. The GM at a computer with a monitor. The players looking at another monitor or a projector or whatever. Doesn't matter. We all agreed it would be relatively easy for the GM to run the game in person using FG2 and a normal computer and somehow push the map out so all the players could see it.

    What we couldn't really figure out was how to get the *players* playing. They each need their own computer in order to control and manipulate their characters.

    The GM at a computer or laptop is no problem. We've done this and as long as the Tool is robust enough, it works just like a GM screen.

    But each *player* with a laptop is prohibitive. They're too big, too unwieldy, not ergonomic enough for tabletop play.

    But an iPad, on the other hand, is PERFECT.

    So it seems to me, Step One is recognizing that the iPad App would be a client app, not a server. You wouldn't run the game from an iPad, you'd play from an iPad.

    It would have to focus on what the player wants and needs. The player wants and needs to be able to manipulate his Token on the map. He needs to be able to grab his mans, and move him as he wants. That's non-negotiable.

    But he doesn't actually need his character sheet. Or rather, he doesn't need his character's information preserved in Sheet Format. Like a separate document you look at, as it is currently.

    You could, for instance, have the Map displayed on the iPad. Whatever the GM wants the players to see, the players see.

    The player's character data, though, would all be displayed using UI elements. Imagine a row of color-coded squares along the bottom with the names of all his powers. Click on one, and it pops up, allowing you to read, attack, roll damage.

    Name, alignment, stats across the top. Need to make a Strength test? Double tap, or tap-and-drag on "Strength."

    Skills along the side, or maybe a little pop-out sidebar with skills, Same thing.

    In other words take the relevant data from the character sheet and embed it into the ui around the edge of the screen.

    Seems like it could work. The player doesn't need all the tools the GM needs. He doesn't even need to be able to make a dude, he can do that at home.

  2. #2
    Stuart's Avatar
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    There are two iPad apps out:
    Battlemap is the more expensive of the two and has a fog-of-war effect and works nicely. I have used it in games with a palm-sized projector I bought.

    RPG Cartographer is cheaper and has more tokens (made by Devinight) but has much less functionality and I found more difficult to use when creating maps.

  3. #3
    Ever since the iPad came out, I have thought it would be a perfect tool for gaming. Alas, lack of time to split among all the projects has slowed down my ambitions.

    One of the primary challenges is that FG is designed as a game system agnostic platform. This means that there is no "magic" implementation to convert character sheets (or other table objects) into iPad-friendly interface components. Each ruleset would require its own iPad-friendly character sheet definition. The question is whether each client on the iPad should be unique and thus deny any games not using ruleset X, or whether FG should allow ruleset developers to define iPad-friendly interface objects (like character sheets) that are handled by the iPad client. I'm leaning towards the former, since it does not require any changes to FG while the iPad version is fleshed out.

    The network protocol for FG is not that complex, though you would need a way to maintain an in-memory tree-style database, and decide how to handle all the network events (dice, chat, etc.).

    If anyone is interested in tackling this effort, please drop us a note at:
    [email protected]

    Cheers,
    JPG

  4. #4
    There are iPad character sheets already out there, but not full-blown FG2-like clients.

  5. #5
    Well, what the SmiteWorks people consider a feature is not necessarily a feature for the player.

    The SmiteWorks folks naturally favor a general-application tool. One that can work with any system. But a given player doesn't need a tool that works with 20 different system if he only plays one.

    Based on my time at WotC and the market data I saw, the overwhemling majority of people who self-identify as RPG players don't play more than one system.

    So if I'm right and the proper design and breakdown would be; GM runs FG2 on his PC, players interface via iPads, then the players just need a version that works with the Ruleset they tend to use. No idea what the most popular ruleset is, but I suspect the best investment of development time would be D&D, either Pathfinder or 4E and my own inclination is to support the currently supported, D&D-branded version. Figure if you can't make a go of an app that supports actual D&D play, an app that supports Savage World or CoC would be less viable.

    The trick to developing an App like this would *not* be "replicate FG2 on the iPad." You can do a lot of stuff in FG2, have a lot of stuff open. I think an iPad version would have to hew more closely toward the tactical side.

    Being able to bring your iPad to the table, connect, see the Map the GM is using, move your dude around, have all the functionality of the JPG rulesset. Attack, damage, dice, would be huge. Might be a lot of work.

  6. #6
    Actually if you read Moon's post again you'll see that they are specifically leaning towards a single Ruleset/System per implementation of the application on the iPad.

    I can see pros and cons to this situation. Not the least of which being that it works against anyone who isn't using a 'Primary' system like DnD. I would have to disagree with your view that the ability to use the application for any system is not considered a feature to the player. In reality, I firmly believe that this feature is one of the major reasons that FG2 is as popular as it is. The simple fact is, while I can agree with the market research that leans towards people tending to use only one system for the most part. (Most people don't want to have to memorize multiple systems) But the fact is, which system they favor can vary widely. The fact that there are major companies behind systems like Shadowrun, DnD, and the World of Darkness systems is proof of that.

    It is my personal opinion that they would benefit greatly by making the iPad version capable of multiple Rulesets, even if it had to be one instance of the app per ruleset. Then have the construction of the iPad friendly version of the Ruleset fall on the heads of the developers of the Rulesets. That would make the most sense to me. Then Moon could focus on making the 3.5E and the 4E versions. But it doesn't mean you won't eventually see one for obscure community Ruleset. It just means someone has to commit the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattcolville
    Well, what the SmiteWorks people consider a feature is not necessarily a feature for the player.

    The SmiteWorks folks naturally favor a general-application tool. One that can work with any system. But a given player doesn't need a tool that works with 20 different system if he only plays one.

    Based on my time at WotC and the market data I saw, the overwhemling majority of people who self-identify as RPG players don't play more than one system.

    So if I'm right and the proper design and breakdown would be; GM runs FG2 on his PC, players interface via iPads, then the players just need a version that works with the Ruleset they tend to use. No idea what the most popular ruleset is, but I suspect the best investment of development time would be D&D, either Pathfinder or 4E and my own inclination is to support the currently supported, D&D-branded version. Figure if you can't make a go of an app that supports actual D&D play, an app that supports Savage World or CoC would be less viable.

    The trick to developing an App like this would *not* be "replicate FG2 on the iPad." You can do a lot of stuff in FG2, have a lot of stuff open. I think an iPad version would have to hew more closely toward the tactical side.

    Being able to bring your iPad to the table, connect, see the Map the GM is using, move your dude around, have all the functionality of the JPG rulesset. Attack, damage, dice, would be huge. Might be a lot of work.
    • Trying to find a community Ruleset, Extension or Information on how to complete a process? Try FGRepository.
    • PM Myself if you have new or updated community Rulesets, Extensions or Information that you'd like added to FGRepository.

  7. #7
    I have thought about this pretty heavily over the last few months. I even went so far as to packet capture the network activity, which as moon wizard said, its pretty basic.

    I ultimately concluded it was doable but definitely a lot of work. I think the reasonable thing to shoot for would be just to do a character sheet companion product for iPad/Android. You can view and edit your character sheet but thats about the limit of it.

    I mean otherwise we're talking about a product that would be close to the same level of effort it required to put Fantasy Grounds together in the first place. Likely more then one person can reasonably bang out in any reasonable amount of time. Which leads into the economics of such a project...which I don't think the sell through would be high enough to justify.

    Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so. Otherwise I'd love to see someone do this. As I said a character sheet only app would have value and is something reasonable to do and maybe in time it could be expanded to include more features.

    Just my 2 cents.

  8. #8
    Just use a tablet PC. It already runs windows, and you can get ones which use both fingers and stylus. Yes, it's more expensive than an iPad, but not by a huge amount when they're on sale (I've seen HP ones for around $800 before).

    I used an old Lenovo tablet at work for about 3 years, and loved it. Especially the pressure-sensitive stylus and being able to completely ditch my notebook in favor of Microsoft OneNote.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Slipshod
    Just use a tablet PC. It already runs windows, and you can get ones which use both fingers and stylus. Yes, it's more expensive than an iPad, but not by a huge amount when they're on sale (I've seen HP ones for around $800 before).

    I used an old Lenovo tablet at work for about 3 years, and loved it. Especially the pressure-sensitive stylus and being able to completely ditch my notebook in favor of Microsoft OneNote.
    That's a good point. I have an iPad and I'm an iOS developer, so I naturally went there, but it'd be way easier to drop $1000 on a tablet PC than have 5 guys spent 6 months developing an iPad client.

    The problem, though, is that I think any random gaming group is approaching 1 iPad per player much, much, much faster than it's approaching 1 Tablet PC per player, naturally, without anyone deliberately buying one for FG2.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mattcolville
    That's a good point. I have an iPad and I'm an iOS developer, so I naturally went there, but it'd be way easier to drop $1000 on a tablet PC than have 5 guys spent 6 months developing an iPad client.

    The problem, though, is that I think any random gaming group is approaching 1 iPad per player much, much, much faster than it's approaching 1 Tablet PC per player, naturally, without anyone deliberately buying one for FG2.
    I was more thinking about it for hotseat use (your turn, here's the battlemap), but you definitely have a point about geeks and their toys. Though nobody in my group has an iPad, nor really plans to get one. The one game we did in person had everyone and their laptops on the gaming table.... It's much easier to fit them all when you don't need a mat, dice, books, or character sheets. Much more dangerous with the beer though.

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