Possible additions to the GURPS ruleset

[Oberoten]

Aaaactually... imagewindow_image.lua contains the scaling and how to calculate/present it.

I think it'd be pretty easy to make what measure is used into a preference setting.

- Obe

[Spyke]

Aaaactually... imagewindow_image.lua contains the scaling and how to calculate/present it.

I think it'd be pretty easy to make what measure is used into a preference setting.

- Obe

OK, thanks Obe, I'll take a look.

This sounds like an ideal candidate for an extension, made more generic, allowing anyone to set a scale for the squares or hexes which is then saved with the image. Even GURPS players use different scales for different maps (e.g. miles rather than yards, or square grids for some purposes).

Spyke

[demonsbane]

(Warning: Long post -a lot of quoted text)

There are many good ideas in this thread. I agree with almost all them.

I do believe though that full automation isn't the wonder that it's generally held up to be. (...) I've also played with my FG ruleset with no automation built in, and the games do not run noticeably less smoothly without it. Just like in a face-to-face game, you get to know your key skill levels, and so roll 3d6 against them without needing to look them up.

This last thing creates, in some senses and degrees, a sort of detachment with the character sheet, and in turn, too, this may create a sort of detachment with the actual character, resulting in a loss of involvement on the part of the player.

I've played in some games with automated VTTs, and I could sense this in some degree, not in myself but in others.

What would be wonderful though, and a reason for pushing for an official commerical ruleset, would be reference tables for traits, spells, armour and weapons within FG itself, together with the key tables for the GM. You can of course, add the latter for your own use using images.

Yeah, I did something like that (scanned tables, charts, rules for use inside FG II)... and it would be great to see such things officially released.

And well, I fully agree with this Spyke is saying: I'm not a big fan of automation in VTT or in rulesets. I don't like players not needing to keep their character's numbers in mind -the most important numbers, at last. And I want too see them more typing than just mouse-clicking. Automation can mean less involvement from the players side, and that's what I don't like.

Wow, this seems a sort of rant. Only trying to make my point clear. (And anyway it's not a hard opinion).

But . . .

Despite what I said just above, I really think some automation is great for the GM, because he needs to track down much more information and NPC stats than the players. Players tracking their own characters is fine in most cases, and you may disagree regarding some calculations as Move/Dodge synchronised with HP in real time, but the GM doesn't gain anything with his head overloaded with many "processes": if he can to annotate them in the combat tracker, and/or if some automation can help him, that would be in benefit of both GM and players, contributing to a better game.

With regard to the online policy, I think we are getting to the point where I should approach SJG at least to get a better understanding of the parameters of what's allowed.

So, I'm in favor of asking what's really allowed by SJG Online Policy. If it were possible to push it towards more permissiveness, that would be great because we could have these things in the GURPS ruleset:

• In the combat tracker have a drop down list that allows the GM to set the PC/NPC posture. ie Standing, crouching, kneeling, crawling, laying down, sitting and flying. These could also be state icons like the "Friend", "Neutral", and "Hostile".
• In the combat tracker have a drop down list that allows the GM to set the status of the PC/NPC. ie Normal, mentally stunned, physically stunned, total surprise, unconsious, dead. It will also require a box next to the status field where the GM could record the number of turns the said status is in effect.
• In the combat tracker have a drop down list which lets the GM set important PC/NPC actions that might have a persistant effect over the turn. ie Concentrate, Wait, Aim, Evaluate, All Out Attack, All Out Defense.
• In the combat tracker have a box in which the GM can record the 'Shock' penalty for a PC/NPC.

Another suggestion is only esthetical (to Spyke and Oberoten): I've seen the "metal" skin of the D&D 4 JPG ruleset (now included in Fantasy Grounds II), and I thought about adding it, as an extension, to the GURPS 4e ruleset. Of course it's needed permission of the author, and some tweakings and work but I think it would be a good idea. Not necessarily to do what I'm requesting but to add more and more skins to this ruleset given the generic nature of the GURPS system.

There are also enhancements to the interface going on in the D&D rulesets that I want to reflect in the GURPS ruleset at some point, particularly Encounter groups to help set up combats.

And I was going to suggest to Spyke the addition of "Encounters" in the ruleset. Now I just read he is already planning to implement such feature, and some other things we can see in the 4 JPG ruleset, too!

After playing a game over the weekend, a feature I would love to see is the proper calculations of scale on maps.

That's another good idea. And seemingly, doable!

Aaaactually... imagewindow_image.lua contains the scaling and how to calculate/present it.

[demonsbane]

More ideas of additions to the ruleset:

- A "button" in the character sheet for opening its full-sized picture (not a token).

I'm not sure if FG 2 lets to do something like that.

- "Effects", as with the D&D 4 JPG ruleset.

- A "Party Sheet", like this. So the GM can have many relevant Player Character data in a single box. (I guess this is a lot of work and not an essential feature).

[johniba]

I would not like a full automation. 4E is automated almost to the point of too much... where it actually takes away the joy...

I would love to see in GURPS ruleset some simple automations, for example:

1) If we could have every skill in the sheet to have the dice beside it: we could eithe drag that dice to the shortcuts bellow, double click to roll it, or drag the dice and toss them.

They would automatically have the description of what roll we did

and


2) Being able to drag a value from the chat into a sheet and the damage would be applied.

3) Initiative rolls place people in the combat chart...


I would even forteit 2 and 3, only item 1 would be really nice to have.


No more than this... as I said, too much automation would defeat the purpose of playing paper and pen (or in this case virtual paper and pen)

[Spyke]

I would not like a full automation. 4E is automated almost to the point of too much... where it actually takes away the joy...

I would love to see in GURPS ruleset some simple automations, for example:

1) If we could have every skill in the sheet to have the dice beside it: we could eithe drag that dice to the shortcuts bellow, double click to roll it, or drag the dice and toss them.

They would automatically have the description of what roll we did

and


2) Being able to drag a value from the chat into a sheet and the damage would be applied.

3) Initiative rolls place people in the combat chart...


I would even forteit 2 and 3, only item 1 would be really nice to have.


No more than this... as I said, too much automation would defeat the purpose of playing paper and pen (or in this case virtual paper and pen)

Lots to think about here, and I'll get back to demonsbane's comments when I've got a bit more time.

Johniba, on your points:

1 and 2 would fall foul of the online policy at the moment, as they automate play by building the GURPS rules into the interface, making the character sheet 'more than just a character sheet'.

However, assuming that we were allowed to do this:

1) Adding the dice icon to each skill would require a pretty major rewrite of the way the skill pages work. At the moment the various sections for skills and advantages are lists, with the rows divided into columns. To get the sort of functionality that related the rows to a dice throw I think I'd need to create a page of 'slots' of separate windows for each bar, in the way that the combat tracker works. (We would still want an unlimited rather than fixed number of skills.)

You can set up the hotkeys manually to do this for your common skill rolls, currently, using the /die command, dragged to a hotkey.

2) I covered this above. Calculating the results of the actual hits applied from a damage roll is very complex, and would require a lot more intelligence built into the sheet to allow for targetting damage to specific armour locations, and recording the type of damage on a damage roll (cutting, impaling, etc), together with any other modifiers for the weapon, or relevant traits (Homogenous, etc). At the moment you can already drag a value from the chat to the sheet to apply the damage - it's just that usually the value on the chat isn't the amount of hit points that you want to remove.

3) GURPS doesn't use initiative rolls in this way, although I know some groups do use this as a house rule. GURPS combat order is set from the relative Basic Speed of the combatants. If combatants have the same Basic Speed then the one with the higher DX goes first. Only if the DX is also the same is a die roll made to see who goes first.

The GURPS ruleset combat tracker has a separate column called Seq for setting the sequence, which can be adjusted by rolling the mouse wheel over it, or typing in a figure. This avoids violating the online policy by building in the GURPS rules, but the Basic Speed is shown right next to it to make it as easy as possible to set the order quickly. (If you need the DX you can click on the link button at the right end of the tracker line to pop up the character sheet.)

Spyke

[mr_h]

How much work would it take to add an 'extra' six sided dice to the desktop? Right now you pick up the six sider, throw it, and it rolls 1d6. It'd be nice to be able to pick up a special d6, throw it, and have it automatically roll 3d6 (instead of having to right click, select 3, then throw).

I'd also like a GM Screen Module, I'd even pay for one :b (I have the PDF, but it's a pain to swap back and forth).

[Spyke]

How much work would it take to add an 'extra' six sided dice to the desktop? Right now you pick up the six sider, throw it, and it rolls 1d6. It'd be nice to be able to pick up a special d6, throw it, and have it automatically roll 3d6 (instead of having to right click, select 3, then throw).

I just have 3d6 set up on my F1 hotkey, so that I can roll 3d6 either by clicking that box or by pressing F1.

Just drop 3d6 onto a hotkey box, then, if you want the box to have a label, right click, choose the pen and type 3d6 followed by Enter.

You can also drag the 3d6 out of the box and roll them, which effectively gives you what you want now.

Spyke

[demonsbane]

1 and 2 would fall foul of the online policy at the moment, as they automate play by building the GURPS rules into the interface, making the character sheet 'more than just a character sheet'.

However, assuming that we were allowed to do this (...)

I'm not very aware of SJG Online Policy details, but if it really reaches to that point of prohibition, I can't understand why so many extreme and crippling limitations to the fan base, and actually that would be damaging to the company as it would be perceived as extremely dull and nonsensical. Maybe they are trying to be safe regarding some abuses I can't imagine right now, but they could extend some further or additional partial permissions to some initiatives -as this one! - (*). After all, no one is trying to do a GURPS Computer Game. As far I know the SJG Online Police says:

"Run a game of GURPS, Toon or In Nomine on an online chat system, with a Game Master?
Yes; as we see it now, that's really no different from running a game for your friends in your living room. Anything more than a character creation game aid is a problem, because at that point it's not just like a game in your living room; it's more like a "computer game."

Create a character generator or other game aid?
Yes, as long as you include the appropriate notices. We want to ENCOURAGE our fans to create these programs, share them with the community, and have fun doing it. If you want to charge money for a game aid based on our work, the Online Policy does NOT apply . . . you must either get a license from us, or sell us the game aid for distribution as a regular product, and either way we'll hold you to professional standards. Email [email protected] with a formal proposal letter.

We do, however, have some advice for creators of game aid programs. First, provide documentation. Some simple instructions on how to use the most basic features will be a big help to users. Second, support your creation. We've set up a forum for feedback; plan on being aware and active in these discussions."

By reading this, it doesn't seem so prohibitive to me, but sure I'm not aware of something.

(*) Excepting the possibility they want to discourage any fan creation implying the GURPS system in any way...

-

Johniba's ideas are good, too. The drawback of all this is... lot of work for Spyke!

Concerning mr_h suggestions: I think the six sided dice was one idea already considered at the ruleset's creation. It was dropped because the technical impossibility of implementing it at the moment.

Regarding the GM Screen Module, I have the PDF too and at any rate, because it's impossible to open any PDF within Fantasy Grounds 2, I cropped tables and text fragments for opening them as JPG images while gamemastering with FG 2. But a way for making a basic GURPS framework as you are pointing with the GM Screen Module would be much better for the ruleset. The drawback is I'm sure SJG isn't going to allow it (I would like to be wrong)!

[demonsbane]

I just have 3d6 set up on my F1 hotkey, so that I can roll 3d6 either by clicking that box or by pressing F1.

Just drop 3d6 onto a hotkey box, then, if you want the box to have a label, right click, choose the pen and type 3d6 followed by Enter. (...)

That is so basic and useful it can be included in the README file.

Hm, since the ruleset is now included in the updates of the program (BTW, kudos for that, Spyke!) I think it hasn't a README file anymore.